Locales

[Chameleon Company]

This is where I become a bit confused, is it possible for something that seems like a mutt to actually be real pedigree? and if so how can someone whose a novice differentiate between the two? Personally I'd rather not cross my fingers and hope for the best, I'd feel better knowing that I can be better assured that im truly getting what I payed for and expecting.

Yes, it is possible for something that appears non-traditional to actually be pedigree. But you would need to get opinions from a very small group of folks who had seen enough of what really exists in the wild, and is legitimately possible, to render you that consensus that some others might respect. Even then, you are back to having to convince folks that the chameleon that doesn't look like an Ambilobe really is an Ambilobe . As a hobbyist or small-time breeder, or anyone that hopes to make a few shekals from offspring, I would always advise that you go to the most typical and colorful specimens of a locale that define your expectations for your breeding stock.

We must always remind ourselves that Locales are not species. They are not always distinct enough to be ... well ... distinct enough ! What they are is a way to label and market our animals, such that someone else will agree with our labels, if not actually seek them out. Call it a common language within panthers. My Ambanja female with someone else's Ambanja male will produce baby Ambanjas for you to sell to others who recognize them as Ambanjas. There will always be legitimate fringes. Some of us have fun and enjoyment spending some time and effort in the fringes, but only after we have the mainstream expectations covered first.

Nick ... got me laughing too. Many that go back in this business know all about producing "Kalambilobes", and other "fringes" that even Mother Nature would scorn. A few that read here will know exactly of which I speak. Otherwise, Brad would frown on further explanation, and I concur.

 

[LittleLionLover]

Thanks Jim I think I've got a better understanding of things now.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Thanks Jim I think I've got a better understanding of things now.

Got me feeling good, cause usually I just muddle things up ... LOL ! My advice would be to always buy to your expectation. With whatever comes of that, whether it be wanting to post pictures of "my new Ambilobe", or eventually sell offspring, you are most likely to have what you are presenting accepted as what you say it is. Countless times we have seen in this forum where folks present their "new arrival Ambanja" only to be told that it looks as if it is mixed Locale, if not pedigree Nosy Be. We have seen the debates where (my paraphrase) "Its an Ambanja because I paid for an Ambanja". We have also seen new "mini-locales" such as Joffreville (deep in Diego Suarez territory), Andapa (fringe Sambava, and not distinct in my book ... I imported them in 2002, then gave up on them as they were still under the Sambava bell curve IMO) and other labels to take with a grain of salt (Picasso's anyone ?). In the end, its often too much about making a buck. A little "buyer beware", and you can do just fine with this hobby.

 

[Kent67]

If you can't afford a trip around the north coast of Madagascar but want to learn the differences, one of the best reference websites I've seen for identifying the regional color variants of this species is redtom123's site: http://www.pantherchameleon.de/?q=madagascar_chameleons/furcifer-pardalis-madagascar. He has toured the island extensively and his photos are not only beautiful, but taken in the actual locales.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

.

If I have to spend too much time trying to convince anyone that "this really is an Ambilobe despite how it looks", then I need to get my bloodlines closer to the middle of the bell-curve on the next generation, or maybe find a new calling.

wait wait wait.....jim...calling?????? your not in it for the millions of dollars??????


thanks chris and jim, well said

 

[LittleLionLover]

Got me feeling good, cause usually I just muddle things up ... LOL ! My advice would be to always buy to your expectation.

Trust me you were very insightful relieved me of a monster migraine trying to figure it all out on my own

In the end, its often too much about making a buck. A little "buyer beware", and you can do just fine with this hobby.

This is much to true and I've found it out rather quickly.