Kidney Disease Anyone?

[Becca G]

Hi all... I posted over the wkend about my panther leon. Well I brought him to a very experienced and highly recommended vet today. He said 4 1/2 yrs is getting up there for a chameleon... He also said that it's very common for chameleons to get kidney disease. I've never heard this mentioned before. Anyone have expereince with it? He recommended keeping him hydrated of course and took blood from the base of his tail to test a CBC as well as kidney function. I kind of got the impression that it was a complication of aging. He said all my husbandry is good and recommended not supplementing at all, especially if it turns out he has kidney disease. Any comments? Thanks...

 

[sandrachameleon]

I reiterate that 4 and a half years for a panther chameleon is NOT old.
There are many causes of kidney issues, inlcuding: https://www.chameleonforums.com/kidney-problems-20210/#post172146

 

[beeze]

There is a member on here "jam" her little guy Hermie has kidney problems. You might want to pm her with any questions. She's great to help.

 

[royden]

My panther is just over 3 years and his kidney's are starting to slow down according to the vet. Possibly over supplimentation as a young adult, but it is pretty common with old age. The urate of the feces will start to yellow despite high hydration. There are white spots in the mouth that form. It's gradual. He's probably still got a lot of time though.

I'd cut your supplimentation way, way back.

Sandra, what makes you think 4 years isn't old? They barely live 3 in the wild. In captivity panthers rarely break 5 years. I'd say 4 years old is a geriatric cham. (Just curious - not accusatory, I don't have that much experience.)

 

[Becca G]

How, if at all did they treat that? Meds? My chameleon seems pretty weak... he keeps going to rest on the bottom of the cage. I don't know if he can recover. I've been coaxing him to eat and drink as much as I can. But with the start of the work week I will be out a lot and not be able to cater to him as much. This is really depressing... part of pet ownership I guess.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Sandra, what makes you think 4 years isn't old? They barely live 3 in the wild. In captivity panthers rarely break 5 years. I'd say 4 years old is a geriatric cham. (Just curious - not accusatory, I don't have that much experience.)

My first male panther live to be seven and half (possibly older) before I had him put to sleep. My females have lived 4+ years. Maybe I've been lucky? But I've read of many others who have similar experiences.

Id expect in the wild they die much younger (predation, fighting, parasites, etc) Same if they've had less than ideal captive care taking.

 

[THECHAMMAN]

my guy has been determined to be 4 yrs of age by my vet, and his poo starts to yellow no matter how much i water, and he eats less and ive been advised to use less supplements to keep his kidneys good.

 

[panthercrazy]

I am by no means an expert on the subject, but a friend of mine who is a homeopathic/animal therapist (both canine & reptile) has stated too much protein in the diet can cause kidney issues over time.

We've had conversations in great depth regarding this with the diet of reptiles in concerns with feeding too many hornworms as a staple (horns have a very high protein ratio); not saying that horns are the only source of protein by any means as other bugs (especially depending on gutload) provide protein as well. She also mentioned that she sees it in dogs quite a bit too, example a dog not require higher protein being fed high protein dog food.

Thought I'd share not sure it's the info looking for.

 

[royden]

My first male panther live to be seven and half (possibly older) before I had him put to sleep. My females have lived 4+ years. Maybe I've been lucky? But I've read of many others who have similar experiences.

Id expect in the wild they die much younger (predation, fighting, parasites, etc) Same if they've had less than ideal captive care taking.

Wow. 7 years. Nice job Sandra. I think that's pretty rare.

 

[Becca G]

In regards to feeding hornworms as a staple.... I don't. They used to be a rare occasional treat among gut loaded crickets, superworms, butter worms and occasionaly hissing cockroaches. That's what he's getting now because that's all he will eat. I'm still offering him a varied diet...

 

[sandrachameleon]

Is he still pooping? Drinking on his own? Or are you having to coax him to take water and food - or does he sometimes get it for himself? What's his quality of life like - will carry on for awhile despite the kidney issue? What if he was in a more lateral cage, less climbing? I know its hard when they go downhill - we get so attached to them. And its a struggle deciding what is best for them.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Becca,

Yea as your chameleon ages it is a delicate balance between optimum health and over doing it and every chameleon is different. Kidney disease can be cause by a number of things, too much supps, too much food in general. As a youngster (3 to 7 months) they require much more food and supps but when they start aging it is best to cut down their food and supplements. Basically they are full throttle when they are 3 to 7 and gradually start to eat just to maintain. I normally see it around a year and a half, they will sometimes go into a hunger strike then just start slowing down. They aren't dying just maturing.

So, basically feed to maintain, supplement like once a month with your main three, maybe twice a month with the calcium w/o D3. Adults don't lose weight too quickly, so if you do notice him/her losing weight, bump up the food just a little.

Chris