Kale The Chameleon

[nicolecham]

Hello everyone this is my chameleon named Kale I was not informed of a gender when I got Kale because she was too young, though I did have a male chameleon before her and he grew much faster and had a bigger crown than her. Though if anyone would like to clarify the gender that would be amazing! So I got her mid March, and to me it looked like she was about a month old. She is extremely active and loves to climb everywhere and just run around (literally like a dog), she eats very well like at least 15 worms a day, she basks throughout the day using her colors correctly, she drinks plenty of water (my dripper broke but I mist her whole enclosure at least 4-5 times a day while using a humidifier all day with distilled water. I have started to notice Kale sitting weirdly or oddly on her branches in her enclosure. Most of the time it is when she’s basking, but she is either sitting normally with her right back leg hanging off the branch, or she is sitting is a very odd position. I don’t know if this is something chameleons just do, or the way Kale just wants to bask, but I want to make sure nothing is wrong or hurting her. I have tried touching areas of her leg and hip to see if something is hurting there, but she does not get mad or upset when I do. I have been briefly talking with a local exotic vet about Kale but thought that I should post on here first to see what others had to say. Does Kale look like a healthy chameleon? How old does she look throughout these pictures below? Is something wrong with her leg, hips, spine? What are things I should do differently? Thank you everyone!

this was the first day I got Kale (March 12, 2020)

one month after I got kale (April 15, 2020)

two months after getting Kale, noticing she sits with her leg off the branch (May 16, 2020)

This was yesterday. (June 10, 2020) This was the first time I have ever seen her sit like this.

This was also yesterday (June 10, 2020).

 

[Beman]

Hi there and welcome. If you could please fill this form out with detail it would help us give you feedback. Just looking at the pics the UVB lighting is incorrect.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[nicolecham]

KALES INFORMATION

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Female Veiled Chameleon, around 4 months old? Been in my care for 3 months.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I try to not “handle” Kale as much as i do getting her used to me taking her out of her enclosure means she gets to go on some big plants around my apartment, I feel better when she isn’t in her cage 247, and she gets to roam on bigger plants that can’t fit in her enclosure!
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Unfortunately the petco i bought Kale from does not use crickets, so she is only used to eating worms. I have tried feeding her crickets many times though she does not seem to like them and will not eat them. Instead I feed her at least 12 meal worms a day, on top of 2 or 3 calci worms, and I might throw in a wax worm once in a while. I feed her around 9 am and then again around 3-4 pm. She eats pretty much all of her food every day, never has not eaten throughout a whole day other then while shedding.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I use Repti calcium without D3 every other day and Flukers Reptile Vitamin With Beta Carotene every Wednesday for both meals.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I mist her enclosure 4-5 times every single day with Mist’R Lizard with cool-warm water. I mist at least 5-7 minutes every time. Yes i see my chameleon drink.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Petco might have tested her though i don’t know for sure. She seems to have normal poop from my research.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Her cage is all screen, no glass. It is the Repti Breeze Chameleon Kit
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I have lighting timers that come on at 7:30 am and turn off at 7:30 pm. I use Exo Terra Reptile UVB 150 and a heat lamp. Both her UVB and Heat turn off at 7:30, causing a temperature change during nighttime.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Her basking spot has a large difference in temperature as it’s about 2 and a half feet from the cage floor. My apartment does not get below 70°. We do not put the air on throughout the day and I especially do not keep my fan on at a high speed at night.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I also make sure Kale gets about 50% humidity throughout the day. I keep a humidifier on for half the day allowing plants around her cage to get moist and humid, and of course i mist many times a day which causes humidity
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I have Pothos, Bamboo, money trees, and some artificial plants in her cage. I have many plants around my apartment that she gets to go on as well.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Her cage is in my bedroom right up against big windows, allowing lots of natural sunlight to come into her enclosure and she is not near any vents or fans. She loves to look outside and my apartment looks out to lots of green and trees.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Southern North Carolina

Current Problem - Does she look like a healthy chameleon, am i doing everything right, does she look like she has spinal problems?

Kale at petco before I got her

First day

pics of her enclosure -

 

[Beman]

@nicolecham

I am going to give my feedback and questions in red bold


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Female Veiled Chameleon, around 4 months old? Been in my care for 3 months. Are you sure she is only 4 months?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I try to not “handle” Kale as much as i do getting her used to me taking her out of her enclosure means she gets to go on some big plants around my apartment, I feel better when she isn’t in her cage 247, and she gets to roam on bigger plants that can’t fit in her enclosure!
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Unfortunately the petco i bought Kale from does not use crickets, so she is only used to eating worms. I have tried feeding her crickets many times though she does not seem to like them and will not eat them. Instead I feed her at least 12 meal worms a day, on top of 2 or 3 calci worms, and I might throw in a wax worm once in a while. I feed her around 9 am and then again around 3-4 pm. She eats pretty much all of her food every day, never has not eaten throughout a whole day other then while shedding. So Are you feeding mealworms? If so you will have to pull her off of them. They have very little nutritional value. She needs to be on crickets or roaches as her main staple. As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeders so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3-4 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 10 months old. I will post an image for feeders and proper gutload. You want to feed in the morning so she has all day to bask and digest.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I use Repti calcium without D3 every other day and Flukers Reptile Vitamin With Beta Carotene every Wednesday for both meals. You will want to change up your supplements. I would buy Reptivite with D3. This is a multivitamin with vitamin A and calcium with D3. This is to be given 2 times a month say on the 1st and the 15th. Then at all other feedings you will use the repti calcium without D3.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I mist her enclosure 4-5 times every single day with Mist’R Lizard with cool-warm water. I mist at least 5-7 minutes every time. Yes i see my chameleon drink. You should use room temp water. Do not warm it. What is warm to us is hot to them. So misting does not need to be 5-7 minutes every time. She would be good with 2-3 minute mistings. A mistking mister is an automatic mister with a very fine spray. You might want to look into this.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Petco might have tested her though i don’t know for sure. She seems to have normal poop from my research. Petco does not test them. You should take in a fresh fecal to be tested for parasites to ensure she does not have anything.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Her cage is all screen, no glass. It is the Repti Breeze Chameleon Kit. You will want to upgrade to a larger cage. You will need the additional space to accommodate a lay bin for her. She will lay infertile eggs like a chicken.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I have lighting timers that come on at 7:30 am and turn off at 7:30 pm. I use Exo Terra Reptile UVB 150 and a heat lamp. Both her UVB and Heat turn off at 7:30, causing a temperature change during nighttime. You will want to do away with the compact uvb bulb. And get a T5HO fixture with a linear UVB 5.0 bulb. This is extremely important. Without the correct UVB she will develop MBD which can cause deformations in the bones and serious health issues.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Her basking spot has a large difference in temperature as it’s about 2 and a half feet from the cage floor. My apartment does not get below 70°. We do not put the air on throughout the day and I especially do not keep my fan on at a high speed at night. What is the basking temp and how are you measuring this? You will not want basking to be over 80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I also make sure Kale gets about 50% humidity throughout the day. I keep a humidifier on for half the day allowing plants around her cage to get moist and humid, and of course i mist many times a day which causes humidity. So a humidifier should not be used during the day when lights are on. The combination of the fog and the heat can make her develop a respiratory infection. You only want to run the fogger at night say from 12am-6am nonstop when the cage is its coolest. Night time levels can be up to 100% while day time levels should be between 30-50%max.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I have Pothos, Bamboo, money trees, and some artificial plants in her cage. I have many plants around my apartment that she gets to go on as well. Good live plants are best since Veileds will eat their plants.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Her cage is in my bedroom right up against big windows, allowing lots of natural sunlight to come into her enclosure and she is not near any vents or fans. She loves to look outside and my apartment looks out to lots of green and trees.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Southern North Carolina

Current Problem - Does she look like a healthy chameleon, am i doing everything right, does she look like she has spinal problems?

I would be concerned with the beginning stages of MBD. This can develop to be quite obvious in the limbs very quickly. Between the improper uvb lighting and the supplementation being off it is highly likely. This may be why she is favoring the leg.

Fixing the UVB lighting and getting the Reptivite with D3 are your immediate steps followed by getting her on the correct feeders. Day time fogging should stop today. Let me know what questions you have. I know this is a ton of info and I am happy to help.

 

[nicolecham]

My Feedback/Questions Will Be in Bold After Yours


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Female Veiled Chameleon, around 4 months old? Been in my care for 3 months. Are you sure she is only 4 months? I was never given her actual age when I got her, so I just estimated from how small she was.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Unfortunately the petco i bought Kale from does not use crickets, so she is only used to eating worms. I have tried feeding her crickets many times though she does not seem to like them and will not eat them. Instead I feed her at least 12 meal worms a day, on top of 2 or 3 calci worms, and I might throw in a wax worm once in a while. I feed her around 9 am and then again around 3-4 pm. She eats pretty much all of her food every day, never has not eaten throughout a whole day other then while shedding. So Are you feeding mealworms? If so you will have to pull her off of them. They have very little nutritional value. She needs to be on crickets or roaches as her main staple. As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeders so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3-4 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 10 months old. I will post an image for feeders and proper gutload. You want to feed in the morning so she has all day to bask and digest. Thank you for this information! I actually had many questions about the feeding. I was concerned about her nutrients and because of how small she is and not knowing differences of many supplements. I will definitely try crickets and vegetables the next couple of days and see how she goes with it. I do feed her in a feeder bowl made for worms to not be able to get out of the bowl, could I start to put vegetables and fruit in there and she would know it is food? What do you think is the best size cricket for her? Is it better to feed vegetables and fruit (things that are not live/moving) by hand feeding/with tongs?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I use Repti calcium without D3 every other day and Flukers Reptile Vitamin With Beta Carotene every Wednesday for both meals. You will want to change up your supplements. I would buy Reptivite with D3. This is a multivitamin with vitamin A and calcium with D3. This is to be given 2 times a month say on the 1st and the 15th. Then at all other feedings you will use the repti calcium without D3. thank you so much, I will switch to this schedule asap!
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I mist her enclosure 4-5 times every single day with Mist’R Lizard with cool-warm water. I mist at least 5-7 minutes every time. Yes i see my chameleon drink. You should use room temp water. Do not warm it. What is warm to us is hot to them. So misting does not need to be 5-7 minutes every time. She would be good with 2-3 minute mistings. A mistking mister is an automatic mister with a very fine spray. You might want to look into this. I will definitely look into this! Thank you
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Petco might have tested her though i don’t know for sure. She seems to have normal poop from my research. Petco does not test them. You should take in a fresh fecal to be tested for parasites to ensure she does not have anything. Will do, thanks so much
• 
  Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Her cage is all screen, no glass. It is the Repti Breeze Chameleon Kit. You will want to upgrade to a larger cage. You will need the additional space to accommodate a lay bin for her. She will lay infertile eggs like a chicken. Larger in what way? Vertically or Horizontally? Both? What dimensions should her cage be? her lay bin? When will she start laying?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I have lighting timers that come on at 7:30 am and turn off at 7:30 pm. I use Exo Terra Reptile UVB 150 and a heat lamp. Both her UVB and Heat turn off at 7:30, causing a temperature change during nighttime. You will want to do away with the compact uvb bulb. And get a T5HO fixture with a linear UVB 5.0 bulb. This is extremely important. Without the correct UVB she will develop MBD which can cause deformations in the bones and serious health issues. I will get this asap! It is important to me that she does not develop MBD.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Her basking spot has a large difference in temperature as it’s about 2 and a half feet from the cage floor. My apartment does not get below 70°. We do not put the air on throughout the day and I especially do not keep my fan on at a high speed at night. What is the basking temp and how are you measuring this? You will not want basking to be over 80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. Will i be able to tell when she is going to start producing eggs?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I also make sure Kale gets about 50% humidity throughout the day. I keep a humidifier on for half the day allowing plants around her cage to get moist and humid, and of course i mist many times a day which causes humidity. So a humidifier should not be used during the day when lights are on. The combination of the fog and the heat can make her develop a respiratory infection. You only want to run the fogger at night say from 12am-6am nonstop when the cage is its coolest. Night time levels can be up to 100% while day time levels should be between 30-50%max. Thank you, I will not use the humidifier during the day anymore, and make sure to use it at night.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I have Pothos, Bamboo, money trees, and some artificial plants in her cage. I have many plants around my apartment that she gets to go on as well. Good live plants are best since Veileds will eat their plants. What are more plants I can put in her enclosure that she will eat or is popular with Veileds
• Current Problem - Does she look like a healthy chameleon, am i doing everything right, does she look like she has spinal problems?

I would be concerned with the beginning stages of MBD. This can develop to be quite obvious in the limbs very quickly. Between the improper uvb lighting and the supplementation being off it is highly likely. This may be why she is favoring the leg.

Fixing the UVB lighting and getting the Reptivite with D3 are your immediate steps followed by getting her on the correct feeders. Day time fogging should stop today. Let me know what questions you have. I know this is a ton of info and I am happy to help.

View attachment 269197View attachment 269198
[/QUOTE]

 

[Beman]

See my responses in purple

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Female Veiled Chameleon, around 4 months old? Been in my care for 3 months. Are you sure she is only 4 months? I was never given her actual age when I got her, so I just estimated from how small she was. I think she is more like 5-6 months old based on her size when you got her. They are very very tiny at a month old.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Unfortunately the petco i bought Kale from does not use crickets, so she is only used to eating worms. I have tried feeding her crickets many times though she does not seem to like them and will not eat them. Instead I feed her at least 12 meal worms a day, on top of 2 or 3 calci worms, and I might throw in a wax worm once in a while. I feed her around 9 am and then again around 3-4 pm. She eats pretty much all of her food every day, never has not eaten throughout a whole day other then while shedding. So Are you feeding mealworms? If so you will have to pull her off of them. They have very little nutritional value. She needs to be on crickets or roaches as her main staple. As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeders so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3-4 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 10 months old. I will post an image for feeders and proper gutload. You want to feed in the morning so she has all day to bask and digest. Thank you for this information! I actually had many questions about the feeding. I was concerned about her nutrients and because of how small she is and not knowing differences of many supplements. I will definitely try crickets and vegetables the next couple of days and see how she goes with it. I do feed her in a feeder bowl made for worms to not be able to get out of the bowl, could I start to put vegetables and fruit in there and she would know it is food? What do you think is the best size cricket for her? Is it better to feed vegetables and fruit (things that are not live/moving) by hand feeding/with tongs? Ok so your feeding her bugs the fruit and veg not her. The nutrients will then pass to her when she eats the feeders. You will have to be strong with her... It may take a week to get her on to crickets and off the mealworms. But it is best for her. In that time you only offer the crickets no other feeders. So she learns that those are her food. She could easily handle a half inch sized cricket. Just use your fingers to hand feed not the tongs. if she hits the tongs and pulls back with you holding them she can permanently damage her tongue.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I use Repti calcium without D3 every other day and Flukers Reptile Vitamin With Beta Carotene every Wednesday for both meals. You will want to change up your supplements. I would buy Reptivite with D3. This is a multivitamin with vitamin A and calcium with D3. This is to be given 2 times a month say on the 1st and the 15th. Then at all other feedings you will use the repti calcium without D3. thank you so much, I will switch to this schedule asap! Perfect
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I mist her enclosure 4-5 times every single day with Mist’R Lizard with cool-warm water. I mist at least 5-7 minutes every time. Yes i see my chameleon drink. You should use room temp water. Do not warm it. What is warm to us is hot to them. So misting does not need to be 5-7 minutes every time. She would be good with 2-3 minute mistings. A mistking mister is an automatic mister with a very fine spray. You might want to look into this. I will definitely look into this! Thank you. Josh's frogs sells them and the code reptiliangarden used to be valid for 15% off. You would get the mist king starter kit.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Petco might have tested her though i don’t know for sure. She seems to have normal poop from my research. Petco does not test them. You should take in a fresh fecal to be tested for parasites to ensure she does not have anything. Will do, thanks so much
• 
  Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Her cage is all screen, no glass. It is the Repti Breeze Chameleon Kit. You will want to upgrade to a larger cage. You will need the additional space to accommodate a lay bin for her. She will lay infertile eggs like a chicken. Larger in what way? Vertically or Horizontally? Both? What dimensions should her cage be? her lay bin? When will she start laying? They can start laying as young as 6 months. Although she does not look close yet. 2x2x4 or go wide 36x18x36 exo terra screen cage. Many options for lay bins. I would post a thread specific to what others do with females. Everyone has their preference. Here are a few links to help. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/ https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/egg-laying-and-the-laying-bin.345/
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I have lighting timers that come on at 7:30 am and turn off at 7:30 pm. I use Exo Terra Reptile UVB 150 and a heat lamp. Both her UVB and Heat turn off at 7:30, causing a temperature change during nighttime. You will want to do away with the compact uvb bulb. And get a T5HO fixture with a linear UVB 5.0 bulb. This is extremely important. Without the correct UVB she will develop MBD which can cause deformations in the bones and serious health issues. I will get this asap! It is important to me that she does not develop MBD. Yes. so zoomed is the most common most stores do not carry the T5Ho. And that is what you want. Do not let them talk you into a T8. You may need to order it online. I would get the 24 inch fixture since you will be doing an upgrade in cage size. 5.0 UVB bulb the fixture sits right on the cage type. Either down the middle or diagonally. Basking will then need to be 9 inches below to be in the correct UVI level for her.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Her basking spot has a large difference in temperature as it’s about 2 and a half feet from the cage floor. My apartment does not get below 70°. We do not put the air on throughout the day and I especially do not keep my fan on at a high speed at night. What is the basking temp and how are you measuring this? You will not want basking to be over 80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. Will i be able to tell when she is going to start producing eggs? Yep... She will start showing receptive colors and gravid colors. Ask this in your new thread on lay bins. All the female Veiled owners will help you.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I also make sure Kale gets about 50% humidity throughout the day. I keep a humidifier on for half the day allowing plants around her cage to get moist and humid, and of course i mist many times a day which causes humidity. So a humidifier should not be used during the day when lights are on. The combination of the fog and the heat can make her develop a respiratory infection. You only want to run the fogger at night say from 12am-6am nonstop when the cage is its coolest. Night time levels can be up to 100% while day time levels should be between 30-50%max. Thank you, I will not use the humidifier during the day anymore, and make sure to use it at night.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I have Pothos, Bamboo, money trees, and some artificial plants in her cage. I have many plants around my apartment that she gets to go on as well. Good live plants are best since Veileds will eat their plants. What are more plants I can put in her enclosure that she will eat or is popular with Veileds.. this link shows Veiled tested. https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Chameleon-Plants-122819.pdf
• Current Problem - Does she look like a healthy chameleon, am i doing everything right, does she look like she has spinal problems?

 

[Beman]

Also here are some great links I love with Accurate info and wonderful products.

https://chameleonacademy.com/

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1

www.dragonstrand.com

https://tkchameleons.com/collections/accessories/products/shooting-gallery

 

[nicolecham]

Hello all! So I am currently waiting on a 36x18x36 screened enclosure (which is WAY bigger than what I have now) that should be here on Wednesday. I also bought a 36 inch ReptiSun Terrarium Hood, T5HO, with a 5.0 UVB lamp. I also got a laying bin (dimensions are on the picture) that BARELY fits in her enclosure now, but I still put it in there so that she can recognize it when it goes into her larger enclosure. ? I used 1/2 washed play sand 1/2 loose coconut soil and mixed them together, and added an additional layer of the coconut soil on the top since she knows what that is already. I can understand completely why she wouldnt know what that big huge thing in her home is, but it’s almost like she HATES it. I know it’s massive and I know it’s too big for her home, but should she be almost scared of it? I have not seen her actually go on the top of the soil yet, only observing and sitting on a branch above it. Also anytime I do anything to her enclosure I always will take her out and let her chill on some plants while I do what I need to do. The reason I even put the lay bin in her enclosure was because it looked like she had gained a lot of weight during a short period of time and I started seeing her at the bottom of her enclosure, and coming up with dirt on her, though no receptive colors (that i know of). Also, Kale is eating crickets now! I have been dusting them with repti calcium without d3 every day and feeding her about 8 a day. She loves them, finally. I use her fogger only at night now and it seems to keep her laying bin and the rest of her enclosure nice and moist, but not too moist, which is great for when she wakes up in the morning since I am not usually up yet to mist her. I guess what I am asking here is how am i doing as far as getting things in order and done, laying bin set up, and how Kale looks as a cham?

This is her on June 10th (before i put the laying bin in her enclosure)

and her sleeping that night

This is her laying bin in the enclosure I have now, which will be upgraded on Wednesday with a 36x18x36

I have put a towel up for her to give her privacy, since she is in my bedroom and I am in and out a lot

This is the lamp and hood I got

And here is my lovely Kale as of today

 

[nicolecham]

I’ve also been gently rubbing around her belly to see if I can feel any eggs, but I don’t feel any.

 

[Beman]

She is not at an egg laying stage yet. So you can stop stressing that. lol That is a very large bin... I am going to tag members that have females to give you some feedback on what they do for egg laying bins and such.

@AmandaS @MissSkittles @AnamCara

Personally I see no reason to cover her cage during the day. Even with you in and out of your room. She will get used to your presence. Beman is 3 feet away from my desk. I have had him that close since he was a baby. He is totally used to me coming and going and even my dog getting up and laying in my lap. It is the consistent exposure to your normal life they get used to and no longer effects them.

I am pretty sure dragon strand makes ledges for the screen cage you bought. Look at these.. I think this is the cage you got. If so these ledges he makes to work with that cage specifically. https://dragonstrand.com/product/dragon-ledges-36-wide-cage-pack/

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. It’s sometimes so hard to tell whether they are gravid or not. Kale’s darker coloring and patterns indicate that she could be. As she was probably around 2-3 months old when you got her, she is around the right age. They have a defined cycle. First your lady will get receptive. They will get all prettied up showing their colors and patterns and then get restless, literally climbing their walls. This can last about a week or two. Sometime after this, they’ll put on another slightly different set of colors with pronounced dots and show being gravid. Anywhere from 10 days to a few months later, they’ll lay their eggs. They’ll start eating less and less and then they’ll start digging. They may dig some test holes or just get right down to business. Laying from start to finish usually takes an entire day or two once they pick their hole. When done, you’ll find her up on her basking branch looking dirty and thin and hungry. Her colors and patterns may have even started to go back to ‘normal’.
I can’t read the dimensions on the label of your lay bin, but 29 qt looks to be around 16x13x12” which is perfect. Having a plant in it is also perfect as chams like to lay against root balls or bin sides. Your substrate needs to be changed though. Some use plain washed play sand. Others (including myself) use a mix of play sand with organic soil. It needs to be able to hold a tunnel when moistened. Coco coir isn’t able to do that and would collapse. Depth should be anywhere from 9-12”.
I keep the lay bin as a permanent part of my girls enclosures to eliminate guessing when they may need it and stress from changing their home. Because of that, I have drilled some drainage holes in the bottom of the tote. When they are gravid looking, you need to check it regularly and make sure it is still moist enough all the way thru to the bottom.
Once they start digging is when you want to quietly cover all visible sides of the enclosure with a light sheet. I cut out peek holes so I can monitor progress without disturbing her. Some use little cameras. If you don’t have an automatic mister, set up a water dripper for her. When she’s done, give her a really long misting, some hydrating feeders like hornworms or silkworms. Feed her well for a few days and then start cutting back on feeding to avoid large clutches and frequent egg production. Laying really takes a lot out of them and is why females tend not to live as long as males.

 

[MissSkittles]

This is a really good resource on reducing egg production/laying. http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html
@kinyonga is the best and can answer any questions about trying to reduce laying, plus just about everything else.
I have dragon ledges and can’t imagine setting up an enclosure without them. Well, I did but I foamed the back and sides and that’s a different story. Lol If you do get the ledges, they are easiest to install before you put together the enclosure.

 

[nicolecham]

Hi. It’s sometimes so hard to tell whether they are gravid or not. Kale’s darker coloring and patterns indicate that she could be. As she was probably around 2-3 months old when you got her, she is around the right age. They have a defined cycle. First your lady will get receptive. They will get all prettied up showing their colors and patterns and then get restless, literally climbing their walls. This can last about a week or two. Sometime after this, they’ll put on another slightly different set of colors with pronounced dots and show being gravid. Anywhere from 10 days to a few months later, they’ll lay their eggs. They’ll start eating less and less and then they’ll start digging. They may dig some test holes or just get right down to business. Laying from start to finish usually takes an entire day or two once they pick their hole. When done, you’ll find her up on her basking branch looking dirty and thin and hungry. Her colors and patterns may have even started to go back to ‘normal’.
I can’t read the dimensions on the label of your lay bin, but 29 qt looks to be around 16x13x12” which is perfect. Having a plant in it is also perfect as chams like to lay against root balls or bin sides. Your substrate needs to be changed though. Some use plain washed play sand. Others (including myself) use a mix of play sand with organic soil. It needs to be able to hold a tunnel when moistened. Coco coir isn’t able to do that and would collapse. Depth should be anywhere from 9-12”.
I keep the lay bin as a permanent part of my girls enclosures to eliminate guessing when they may need it and stress from changing their home. Because of that, I have drilled some drainage holes in the bottom of the tote. When they are gravid looking, you need to check it regularly and make sure it is still moist enough all the way thru to the bottom.
Once they start digging is when you want to quietly cover all visible sides of the enclosure with a light sheet. I cut out peek holes so I can monitor progress without disturbing her. Some use little cameras. If you don’t have an automatic mister, set up a water dripper for her. When she’s done, give her a really long misting, some hydrating feeders like hornworms or silkworms. Feed her well for a few days and then start cutting back on feeding to avoid large clutches and frequent egg production. Laying really takes a lot out of them and is why females tend not to live as long as males.

Hello! Thank you so much for all of this important information! I know that they use their coloring as a 'thermostat' but she recently has started to do it more obviously other than when basking. She has been showing more of colors and patterns over the past month for sure, but I was not sure if that was just part of her adulting, or if she was starting to show receptive colors. About a week or two ago, I was seeing her pacing around her enclosure, climbing all around the screen and everything. Now she kind of just chills with darker colors like the third picture. She was starting to dig at the bottom of her enclosure before I got the lay bin, but now it seems like she is too scared to go in it. Do you think this is because of the size of the bin? Do you think it will be less stressful once it is in a bigger enclosure? You are correct about the dimensions on the laying bin and on the loose coconut soil bag it says it is ideal for tropical lizards (even has a picture of a veiled chameleon on bag) and great for digging and burrowing, though I only have about an inch and a half of just coconut soil on the top layer. I totally can understand why it would be dangerous as when it is loose it would be very easy to collapse, though when it gets wet it turns almost hard and seems to hold tunnels well (i tested it in a tupperware). And the depth is about 11inches (1.5 inches moist coconut soil top layer and 9.5 inches of mostly washed play sand and a coconut soil mix). I have also kept my fogger going into the laying bin throughout the night which i have seen to keep moisture all the way to the bottom very well. I am planning to buy a Mistking Misting System though the last time I had checked, they were all sold out. I will go look again for sure! If you still think I should change the substrate, let me know and i will asap! Thank you so much again and I will give an update once her new enclosure comes in and she's all set up in her new home!

 

[nicolecham]

She is not at an egg laying stage yet. So you can stop stressing that. lol That is a very large bin... I am going to tag members that have females to give you some feedback on what they do for egg laying bins and such.

@AmandaS @MissSkittles @AnamCara

Personally I see no reason to cover her cage during the day. Even with you in and out of your room. She will get used to your presence. Beman is 3 feet away from my desk. I have had him that close since he was a baby. He is totally used to me coming and going and even my dog getting up and laying in my lap. It is the consistent exposure to your normal life they get used to and no longer effects them.

I am pretty sure dragon strand makes ledges for the screen cage you bought. Look at these.. I think this is the cage you got. If so these ledges he makes to work with that cage specifically. https://dragonstrand.com/product/dragon-ledges-36-wide-cage-pack/

Hello! Unfortunately, I could not afford a dragon strand screen enclosure, this pandemic has really kicked my butt :/ Though I did get a "chameleon tree pouch" sized 16" x 16" and the Exo Terra Screen Terrarium 36x18x36. And I am glad to know that she will get used to being around me. I want to make her feel as comfortable as possible, but got so worried about not having what she needed while being in the egg laying stage because I do not want her to become egg bound. Is there any other ledges that I can get for the terrarium I got? If so I would love to look into them. Thank you!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hello! Thank you so much for all of this important information! I know that they use their coloring as a 'thermostat' but she recently has started to do it more obviously other than when basking. She has been showing more of colors and patterns over the past month for sure, but I was not sure if that was just part of her adulting, or if she was starting to show receptive colors. About a week or two ago, I was seeing her pacing around her enclosure, climbing all around the screen and everything. Now she kind of just chills with darker colors like the third picture. She was starting to dig at the bottom of her enclosure before I got the lay bin, but now it seems like she is too scared to go in it. Do you think this is because of the size of the bin? Do you think it will be less stressful once it is in a bigger enclosure? You are correct about the dimensions on the laying bin and on the loose coconut soil bag it says it is ideal for tropical lizards (even has a picture of a veiled chameleon on bag) and great for digging and burrowing, though I only have about an inch and a half of just coconut soil on the top layer. I totally can understand why it would be dangerous as when it is loose it would be very easy to collapse, though when it gets wet it turns almost hard and seems to hold tunnels well (i tested it in a tupperware). And the depth is about 11inches (1.5 inches moist coconut soil top layer and 9.5 inches of mostly washed play sand and a coconut soil mix). I have also kept my fogger going into the laying bin throughout the night which i have seen to keep moisture all the way to the bottom very well. I am planning to buy a Mistking Misting System though the last time I had checked, they were all sold out. I will go look again for sure! If you still think I should change the substrate, let me know and i will asap! Thank you so much again and I will give an update once her new enclosure comes in and she's all set up in her new home!

As long as your substrate can hold a tunnel without collapsing, it should be fine. My one girl digs down at an angle and then over a few inches. The other goes almost straight down and then straight across several inches to the wall of the bin. Her tunnel collapsed on her and I had no choice but to dig her out. Thankfully she went right back to digging the next morning after I made sure her soil was moister.
While she may seem afraid of the bin now or ignoring it, when she is ready she’ll find it and use it. If she starts showing signs of distress...lethargy, not eating, staying low in the enclosure, sunken eyes, etc, get her to a vet. Until she lays her eggs, don’t move her into a new enclosure or make any other changes.

 

[Beman]

Hello! Unfortunately, I could not afford a dragon strand screen enclosure, this pandemic has really kicked my butt :/ Though I did get a "chameleon tree pouch" sized 16" x 16" and the Exo Terra Screen Terrarium 36x18x36. And I am glad to know that she will get used to being around me. I want to make her feel as comfortable as possible, but got so worried about not having what she needed while being in the egg laying stage because I do not want her to become egg bound. Is there any other ledges that I can get for the terrarium I got? If so I would love to look into them. Thank you!

Oh no hun I was talking about the DS ledges he makes. You do not have to buy his cage to get the ledges and then you could get all the branches up high and mount plants without damage to your cage or screen. I am pretty sure these ones would work for the cage you got. https://dragonstrand.com/product/dragon-ledges-36-wide-cage-pack/

 

[kinyonga]

Has she been pooping?
She looks fat as though she is gravid but the shape is a bit odd so I'm wondering if there is something else going on as well. The leg hanging can be for several reasons too.
Do you have a good chameleon vet you could take her to?

 

[nicolecham]

Has she been pooping?
She looks fat as though she is gravid but the shape is a bit odd so I'm wondering if there is something else going on as well. The leg hanging can be for several reasons too.
Do you have a good chameleon vet you could take her to?

Hello! Since I had changed to crickets (about a couple days ago) I hadn’t seen any poop until afternoon today, a couple hours after I fed her. I can understand changing her food diet can take some time to get used to. Her poop though does look very strange and has never looked like this. It usually looks a lot darker (brown) and not so moist. Any thoughts? Should I be worried? I also scheduled an appointment with a very good chameleon vet near me (the best one open) but the earliest I could get is July 8th I have also noticed that Kales coloring/patterns have changed a little bit too.

 

[nicolecham]

Oh no hun I was talking about the DS ledges he makes. You do not have to buy his cage to get the ledges and then you could get all the branches up high and mount plants without damage to your cage or screen. I am pretty sure these ones would work for the cage you got. https://dragonstrand.com/product/dragon-ledges-36-wide-cage-pack/

Oh that makes me feel a lot better! I’m going to have to get some ASAP! Her new enclosure was supposed to come in today, but it’s running late and will be here tomorrow. Those will help me a lot with setting it up. Thank you!

 

[nicolecham]

As long as your substrate can hold a tunnel without collapsing, it should be fine. My one girl digs down at an angle and then over a few inches. The other goes almost straight down and then straight across several inches to the wall of the bin. Her tunnel collapsed on her and I had no choice but to dig her out. Thankfully she went right back to digging the next morning after I made sure her soil was moister.
While she may seem afraid of the bin now or ignoring it, when she is ready she’ll find it and use it. If she starts showing signs of distress...lethargy, not eating, staying low in the enclosure, sunken eyes, etc, get her to a vet. Until she lays her eggs, don’t move her into a new enclosure or make any other changes.

I believe it can hold well and won’t collapse, but if i feel any doubt at any point I will change it asap! Thank you! I hope she gets used to it soon, since it’s so big. Will moving her into a new enclosure where she has a lot more space still effect her egg laying process or make her become more stressed? I just feel like she feels almost uncomfortable. And I have a vet appointment on July 8th for her it was the earliest I could get with the best cham vet that was open near me.