Jacksonii xanth female giving birth right now!

AJA

Established Member
Is Mara WC?

Does she show evidence of a cleft palate or lip?

Cleft lips/palates usually occur early in the pregnancy and is usually genetic, though other outside factors may contribute such as chemical poisoning of some kind.

There is also the possibility of a shortage of folic acid (Vit B9) that can contribute to it.
 

Sepioteuthis

New Member
Mara was sold to me as CB, but I have my doubts. Neither her or the male that fathered these babies has any sign of a cleft lip or palate.

Here is a picture of the cleft lip. It looked exactly the same way on all three babies.


And this is one of the 'regular' babies
 

Debmonster

New Member
I'm in California so I don't know if this is of any value but I'll through it out there.

I use Ca w/o D3 only once a week, w/ D3 once a month (sometimes every 2 months) and a multi vitamin once a month. As Xanthoman stated Jackson's are sensitive to preformed vitamins.

Being in Santa Barbara my Jacksons are outside all year (unless we have a freeze snap). I've had 3 different females and their clutches have been successful, except for one...she had them while I was away for a day and between a missed spiderweb in the screen cage and the heat only 8 survived.

I did not see anything glaringly wrong when reading your updates other than the Ca deficiency which boggles me. Maybe UVB in playing a part. We can give them Ca and D3 but the best synthesizing of Ca/D3 is sunlight. Maybe just not enough UVB???

I am so sorry for your loss. I had problems getting these guys past the 4 months point myself!! :mad:
 

Sepioteuthis

New Member
I'm in California so I don't know if this is of any value but I'll through it out there.
Any input is appreciated! :)

I did not see anything glaringly wrong when reading your updates other than the Ca deficiency which boggles me. Maybe UVB in playing a part. We can give them Ca and D3 but the best synthesizing of Ca/D3 is sunlight. Maybe just not enough UVB???

I am so sorry for your loss. I had problems getting these guys past the 4 months point myself!! :mad:
I think you're right about the UV in Jade's case. I just hadn't noticed how badly the ficus tree was blocking the UV.
Mara seems to be overall stronger than Jade and she was getting more UV. However both developed gular edema during gestation, so something went wrong there.

Do you supplement your males and females the same year round?
 

Debmonster

New Member
When I did have my male (I had him for 6 years when he escaped and we found by a cat :( ) and 3 females that was the regimen for years round. Now I have the one female and I'm looking for another male. Jackson's are by far more difficult in my opinion than panthers (but I so love the challenge).

After this last clutch (Aug 15th) my female is a bit weak so I gave her a calcium boost (liquid) and reptaid.
 

Debmonster

New Member
I forgot to mention that my panther female gets swelling in her gular area as well as arm (leg) pits. It goes away after eggs are layed.
 

xanthoman

Avid Member
the more i hear about this, the more i am inclined to go with the genetics, when human parents give birth to a deformed baby , they often dont exhibit any signs of the deformity that their child did. on the other hand, a now known d3 deficiency is a huge flag ,there could be something that is inhibiting d3 utilization even though there is plenty given. do these animals also get sun? if so , it is possible that somehow the exposure to natural sunlight is somehow conflicting with your regimen in a way as to prevent d3 utilization (may be an excess of vitA)also are the animals fed strictly from known wholsome feeders or do they also have access to outside feeders that may have had some pesticide exposure ? i realize that all of this speculation only increases the frustration level, and that you need to get a sense of what went wrong if you are ever to consider breeding this animal (probably not, given its suspected liver problem?) or even any of its appearent healthy (non cleft) offspring, do you also have another female that is gravid ?and if so, did your animals come from the same source? if it came from the same source and the same thing happened again , it could still be read two different ways, (although i would tend to lean towards the genetics), but if your other animal came from a different source , it would tend to indicate more of a regimental thing. (unless they both used the same sire, which would confuse things all over again ) i was wondering was it your goal to breed jax, or was this just something that happened ? the sad reality is, you may never be able to pinpoint the exact cause and IF it is your goal to breed jax then you might be better off starting from scratch, meaning new animals from different source and a complete rethink of your entire regimen (including light) from the ground up, i know this has got to be hurtfull as well as frustrating ,so i hope you are eventually able to reach some sort of conclusion, and what ever that conclusion is , i sincerely hope it is able to offer you some closure on the matter. even the best keepers sometimes have problems that dont make any sense, or are unable to figure out , all any of us can do, is do our best , try to act responsibly (both of which you have clearly done), and hope for the best. this is a good example to all keepers, that none of us know as much about these animals, as we think we do. just when you think everything is under control is when the most difficult of problems seam to arise
 

Sepioteuthis

New Member
I appreciate all your input Xanthoman.

It was my intention to breed Jacksons. I'm now debating if, when and how I will try so again.

Both females came from the same source and are potentially sisters (small chance though). They both mated with the same male - a WC that I've had for more than 4 years. So genetics could def. play a role.

All my chams get to go outside from time to time, but very infrequent. It could be that they ate some wild bugs out there, but it would have made up a very small percentage of their diet.

Basically right now my main priority is the health of the females and to decide what husbandry changes need to be made.

I'm kind of wishing I'd started with 'easier' species such as veileds or panthers when it comes to breeding chams, instead of mellers and jacksons. :)
 

xanthoman

Avid Member
if it is your intention to breed jax , i wouldnt get too discouraged , but i would proceed on the assumtion that there is a strong possibilty of some inherent defect in your stock which is (was) beyond your control . because your regimen seems fairly reasonable. / so if you ever decide to try again, all you can do is just use fresh stock (from a different source) and pay closer attn to your controls, my guess is that it was more a case of bad luck, than bad husbandry. everyone has there own reasons for wanting to breed a particular species, but of all species to breed xantholophus has to make the least sense, especially if there is any financial motivation , because of the questionable origin of many of the animals , many of the people who sell xanths are often vague or even dishonest about how they were obtained, leaving one constantly in doubt about the quality of their stock, by the same token for many of the same reasons many xanth sellers do not announce until animals are actually available, this (combined with a limited market for xanths) creates gluts, which cause a more unstable market than for many other chams , my own list of soon to be available neonates has stalled out (with 5 spaces left on the list) presumably due in large part to a large # of xanths currently on the market [two months ago they seemed kind of scarce (i also have fairly strict buyer controls) ] now there is pretty good availability from different sources . i will say this, if you were considering trying again, and getting different stock, cf member merumontanus currently has two 4 month old xanths for sale, and you probably would be hard pressed to find a better source ,i would get them myself, if wasnt currently having problems keeping up with my own husbandry issues. i dont know the guy personally, but i have followed most of his posts intently and am convinced he is one of the more knowledgable keepers out there (not neccessarly an endorsement , just a personal opinion , and i surf endlessly for every piece of xanth info i can find). if you are not ready to take that step, then there should be several adult animals available in the next 2-3 months from a source that i have a lot of confidence in. because of my cham greedy nature i do not usually refer people to sources that i would potentially use in the near future, but i will gladly pm you when that happens and if you are interested (and ready) at the time i will refer you to him , also if you ever have any specific questions always feel free to pm
 

Sepioteuthis

New Member
Just wanted to give a quick update that one of the babies is still alive!
I haven't seen her eat yet, but she's active. I will try to get a picture later today.

cheers,
Suzanne
 
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