Is my cham gravid?

Discussion in 'Chameleon Breeding' started by Julia777, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Acham

    Acham Member

    The decision to confine them has always been difficult since it seems cruel. I've always wondered if others resort to this when all else fails. So you think I've just been lucky when the female actually completes egg laying. Very rare is it that I loose a female.
    After reading your discussion regarding the hormonal aspect I think all confinement will stop. Thanks for providing this, and, being helpful instead of nasty.
     
    Julia777 likes this.
  2. kinyonga

    kinyonga Chameleon Enthusiast

    I try not to be nasty although I do sometimes get short with some people. :(

    It just doesn't make sense to me to confine them...give them privacy...yes.
     
    Acham likes this.
  3. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Hi, I am with Vertigo right now and she just had a fecal dropping that contains blood. I will attach a pic. Other than this, she is alert, climbing around and acting normally. Does this ever happen prior to egg laying?
     

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  4. kinyonga

    kinyonga Chameleon Enthusiast

    Not in my experience.
    Has she been pooping normally?
     
  5. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    She seems to be, and she's a little less irritable. I put my hand near her and she didn't hiss or react in any way.
     
  6. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Vertigo also has a tiny black spot on her back. Has anyone seen this before and thus have any idea what it might be?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. CJ's Exotics

    CJ's Exotics Avid Member

    Can you post a closer up picture?
     
  8. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Sorry, I keep forgetting to take another pic and she is sleeping now. I was just curious, how often can a female become gravid? Can this occur more than once per year, or what is the average frequency?
     
  9. kinyonga

    kinyonga Chameleon Enthusiast

    You said..."how often can a female become gravid? Can this occur more than once per year, or what is the average frequency?"...when not mated they can produce eggs 3 or 4 times a year....about every 120 days. This can be reduced by maintaining a certain feeding level when started at the right time during her cycle.
     
  10. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Omg, poor female chams. If Vertigo gets through this egg laying ordeal, I will definitely closely follow your dietary recommendations.
     
  11. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

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    I am doing a writing project on chameleons for a class and wanted to clarify what type of bulb this is. Is it a halogen bulb or is the bulb type called something else?
     
  12. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Hi, all. I just read this story online from a cham owner:

    "If she hasn't been with a male she isn't gravid !! It sounds like what happened to my female, she has ovulated and it looks like eggs. Mine got very fat I thourght she was going to pop. I waited 8 weeks from seeing how fat she was getting and decided this was silly, I took her to the vet and he took an xray and she was full to bursting with egg sacs that occur naturally at ovulation. He said it was a wonder she could still breath let alone eat!! He told me she will be ok so long as one doesn't burst as this can lead to peritonitus. He said she will naturally absorb them over the next few months and she should be ok. That was a few weeks ago and he was right , she is slowly loosing the weight. It is a waste of time putting in the egg box as she has none to lay. If you are still not convinced you need to take her to the vet. Chameleons are just like every other animal they need a male and female honest."

    She then wrote:
    "I thourght mine was gravid and waited over the due date un took her to the vets. She wasn't gravid but was full of egg sacs . She had ovulated and I am still waiting for her to absorb them as my vet tells me she will do but it will take a while. If she has been with a male I would get her to the vet as being egg bound could kill her . She needs somewhere very private with deep sand/ vermiculite before she will lay them. Hope this helps"

    Have you ever heard of females with non-fertilized eggs reabsorbing them?
     
  13. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Hi kinyonga. I just read an old post of yours (https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/veiled-chameleon-wont-lay-eggs.1547/page-2) where you said, "The trouble with unmated veileds is that you never know for sure when they should/have to lay eggs. Some don't lay infertile eggs and others do. " So it sounds as if you are saying the same thing, that perhaps my cham will not lay eggs. In this circumstance where they don't lay them, are they reabsorbed, or what happens to them?
     
  14. kinyonga

    kinyonga Chameleon Enthusiast

    I have heard of a couple of veileds resorbing the eggs but it's not something that happens often. I have seen one instance of it too ....a long time ago. Many years ago I was asked by a vet to guide one of her clients through the egglaying process since the vet wasn't familiar with it herself. The client did everything but no eggs were laid and she didn't become eggbound because she didn't lay them like we expected to haopen. When the vet did x-rays of the female, the eggs were gone and the cage searched completely and no eggs found. The female didn't take the usual steps to decline and death that was expected (egg binding) but went on to live a normal life and never laid eggs again.

    When I said some lay infertile eggs and some don't...that's true too but it's different than resorbing the eggs. Some lay them because their husbandry is such that they can produce eggs and others, where the diet is restricted don't. There's no real scientific study to prove this but I think it's like an animal having an abundant year where they have enough of everything to support themselves (their own bodies) and still produce eggs and other years where they lack enough to support themselves (their own bodies) and still produce eggs....so they don't produce the eggs in the lean years.

    I think there's more to egg production than any of what I've said above too...but some of what I think is just my theory and hasn't been proven one way or the other....and I may be totally wrong too. Who knows??
     
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  15. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Hi all, I was thinking of add a live plant to the laying bin to see if that would encourage her to lay eggs, as somewhere I read that they sometimes like to lay near the roots of plants. Right now I have a play sand and peat moss mixture in the bin. Can plants be planted in the mixture and survive?
     
  16. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    Hi all. Vertigo started losing her balance yesterday and it still wasn't good today. She was also not eating. She drank yesterday but only drank the tiniest amount today. So I drove five hours tonight to the closest town with a reptile vet, found an airbnb host who is letting me keep Vertigo overnight at her house, and we have a vet appointment first thing in the morning. I'm scared. I'm not sure if they can help her or if they will recommend that she be put to sleep. Please pray that whatever happens is in her best interests...thanks.
     
  17. Kristen Wilkins

    Kristen Wilkins Chameleon Enthusiast

    Please keep us posted on Vertigo . Prayers :love:.
     
  18. CJ's Exotics

    CJ's Exotics Avid Member

    I'm praying for her, and I know what it is like to lose part of the family. :(
     
  19. Julia777

    Julia777 Member

    The vet confirmed that Vertigo was egg bound and recommended doing surgery to remove the eggs and remove her reproductive system. I was initially scheduled to have him do it, but 15 minutes prior to the surgery asked more questions about the procedure and recovery, and then felt that it was too much to subject her to. He said she would need an 1.5 hours of pre-op sedation, injections, a nerve block, and a trachea tube during surgery. Then they would cut open her stomach and remove the eggs and reproductive tract, then they would have to pinch the skin together since it will not heal as ours does, so it would arc upward so that he inside of the flesh was touching on both sides. The stitches would remain in for 6 weeks and they bother some chams. He said they could itch, but if they are bothered, he really has no way of knowing if it's itching or pain. Then he said we might have to force feed and force hydrate her for a while using a credit card to pry open her mouth.

    I started seeing spots while listening him and nearly fainted, so had to sit down, and said I wasn't sure if I could go ahead with the procedure. I then called my niece (cuz we are like co-mothers to Vertigo) and we decided to have her put to sleep to prevent her from enduring unnecessary suffering and potentially not ever recovering fully after that. Having her put to sleep was so agonizing because she could still climb and she was climbing on my arm that very day shortly before being put to sleep. But she was so egg bound that when she wasn't climbing, she was laying flat on the hammock with her whole body and head resting on the hammock. While the doctor was talking with me about her scheduled surgery, she was looking up at me with these innocent little eyes and her fate was in my hands, and I just couldn't bring myself to put her through the surgery. He gave her the injection to put her to sleep while she was resting on my forearm and she didn't flinch, and her eyes gently closed within about 30 seconds. It was so intense and heart-breaking, but I know it was the right thing to do.

    I don't think that I can get another chameleon until there a chameleon vet nearby, as I had to drive 4.5 hours each way to take her to this vet and I did the trip twice over the last 6 months. Thank you all so much for your support. You have no idea what it has meant to me.

    For a recent class project, I wrote up a chameleon care sheet and I may have you all look at it (since I used many of your ideas in addition to getting info from other sources) and I may give it to the local organization that adopts out chameleons so that the people who adopt them can use it as a reference. But if I post the care sheet, I will start another thread to get input. I go by Julia on online forums (which is one of my middle names), but my first name is Angela. Love to you all ❤ ❤ ❤
     
    CJ's Exotics likes this.
  20. kinyonga

    kinyonga Chameleon Enthusiast

    So sorry to hear about your loss. It's a hard choice to make...but sometimes there is no other good choice.
     

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