Dyesub Dave
New Member
Didn't work for me!!
Dyesub Dave.
Dyesub Dave.
Intelligence in chameleons?
- Thread starter dectr6
- Start date
Sepioteuthis...I only found out because of all the research I've been doing to find out about vitamin A in insects!
There's a lot more intelligence in things out there than you would think!
How about this one...slime mold can find its way through a maze...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s189608.htm
There's a lot more intelligence in things out there than you would think!
How about this one...slime mold can find its way through a maze...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s189608.htm
Rufi0
Established Member
Sorry to bring back a thread that has been buried for 8 years, but thought i'd add it here rather than creating a new post.
Today I noticed something a little unusual, which brought the question of how intelligent chameleons are. I have a modified Exoterra Dripper plant providing water to my chameleon during his daylight hours for 15 minutes every hour.
See thread for setup:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/exoterra-dripper-plant-125663/
This morning just before I left for work I checked on Nosy and he was standing on his vine in front of the watering leaf just looking at it. I noticed the floor underneath the plant was dry which meant the plant hadn't been supplying water so fiddled with the in-line valve to get rid of the air bubble and then turned the water pump on manually.
As soon as the the water started flowing he began drinking.
So clearly he knows this is where the water comes out, and he was waiting patiently for it to start.
I'm intrigued to know wether he has a sense of time and when to go over to the plant. Does he merely react to seeing the water and goes over to it, or does he think the water is about to come i'll go over and wait for it.
I might set up a camera and see how he reacts to the water supply intervals.
Another crazy thought then crossed my mind, if I could create some sort of dispensing button that Nosy could press to turn on the water dripper, could he be trained to use it?
Lol i'm imagining him walking over to the plant shooting a button with his tongue and lapping up all the watery goodness
Today I noticed something a little unusual, which brought the question of how intelligent chameleons are. I have a modified Exoterra Dripper plant providing water to my chameleon during his daylight hours for 15 minutes every hour.
See thread for setup:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/exoterra-dripper-plant-125663/
This morning just before I left for work I checked on Nosy and he was standing on his vine in front of the watering leaf just looking at it. I noticed the floor underneath the plant was dry which meant the plant hadn't been supplying water so fiddled with the in-line valve to get rid of the air bubble and then turned the water pump on manually.
As soon as the the water started flowing he began drinking.
So clearly he knows this is where the water comes out, and he was waiting patiently for it to start.
I'm intrigued to know wether he has a sense of time and when to go over to the plant. Does he merely react to seeing the water and goes over to it, or does he think the water is about to come i'll go over and wait for it.
I might set up a camera and see how he reacts to the water supply intervals.
Another crazy thought then crossed my mind, if I could create some sort of dispensing button that Nosy could press to turn on the water dripper, could he be trained to use it?
Lol i'm imagining him walking over to the plant shooting a button with his tongue and lapping up all the watery goodness
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry to bring back a thread that has been buried for 8 years, but thought i'd add it here rather than creating a new post.
Today I noticed something a little unusual, which brought the question of how intelligent chameleons are. I have a modified Exoterra Dripper plant providing water to my chameleon during his daylight hours for 15 minutes every hour.
See thread for setup:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/exoterra-dripper-plant-125663/
This morning just before I left for work I checked on Nosy and he was standing on his vine in front of the watering leaf just looking at it. I noticed the floor underneath the plant was dry which meant the plant hadn't been supplying water so fiddled with the in-line valve to get rid of the air bubble and then turned the water pump on manually.
As soon as the the water started flowing he began drinking.
So clearly he knows this is where the water comes out, and he was waiting patiently for it to start.
I'm intrigued to know wether he has a sense of time and when to go over to the plant. Does he merely react to seeing the water and goes over to it, or does he think the water is about to come i'll go over and wait for it.
I might set up a camera and see how he reacts to the water supply intervals.
Another crazy thought then crossed my mind, if I could create some sort of dispensing button that Nosy could press to turn on the water dripper, could he be trained to use it?
Lol i'm imagining him walking over to the plant shooting a button with his tongue and lapping up all the watery goodness
They have trained bacteria, why not a chamelon?
Lidee
New Member
I had a male panther cham, probably the tamest chameleon ever. the two years i was privileged to own him he had only puffed up at me once, when i startled him as i tried tried to remove a dead cricket he decided looked like a good idea.
He was able to easily distinguish between me and my mum (we are very similar in appearance, people sometimes mistake us), he would know not to attempt an escape when she would be the one spraying him, yet if it was me doing it he would gladly head for the exit, or scrape against the glass if he would see me and i was not tending to him.
On one occasion i was showing him a female of reproductive age (displaying no suggestive colouring), to see if he would court her and whether she's ready to mate. He was in his viv and she was perched on my hand, and both were peacefully observing each other, no colour changes, or aggressive behaviour, nor overt mating signals. Suddenly the female turned her head toward him and shot her tongue out smacking him dead centre in the nose, simultaneously knocking him off his branch and reeling herself towards him. A telescopic kiss! I was so shocked, and so was he!
Henceforth whenever i presented the same female to him he would puff up, curl his tail up, front paw in defensive pose and leaf. i would show her to him every few weeks, just to see if perhaps he'd have a change of heart, and this went on for 6 or so months, same reaction despite her changes in colour from normal to receptive, to gravid.
i had already started contemplating that he might be gay.
One day i showed him a different female, and at first he puffed up the same, yet a few seconds later he realised it wasn't her and went in for the full on head-bobbing colour-flashing look at me display…
I dont know how much that would count towards intelligence, maybe just speed learning survival, but the ability to tell such similar things apart and react so differently definitely gets my vote of confidence…
He was able to easily distinguish between me and my mum (we are very similar in appearance, people sometimes mistake us), he would know not to attempt an escape when she would be the one spraying him, yet if it was me doing it he would gladly head for the exit, or scrape against the glass if he would see me and i was not tending to him.
On one occasion i was showing him a female of reproductive age (displaying no suggestive colouring), to see if he would court her and whether she's ready to mate. He was in his viv and she was perched on my hand, and both were peacefully observing each other, no colour changes, or aggressive behaviour, nor overt mating signals. Suddenly the female turned her head toward him and shot her tongue out smacking him dead centre in the nose, simultaneously knocking him off his branch and reeling herself towards him. A telescopic kiss! I was so shocked, and so was he!
Henceforth whenever i presented the same female to him he would puff up, curl his tail up, front paw in defensive pose and leaf. i would show her to him every few weeks, just to see if perhaps he'd have a change of heart, and this went on for 6 or so months, same reaction despite her changes in colour from normal to receptive, to gravid.
i had already started contemplating that he might be gay.
One day i showed him a different female, and at first he puffed up the same, yet a few seconds later he realised it wasn't her and went in for the full on head-bobbing colour-flashing look at me display…
I dont know how much that would count towards intelligence, maybe just speed learning survival, but the ability to tell such similar things apart and react so differently definitely gets my vote of confidence…
werecat
Established Member
I think chameleon intelligence is strange. There are times when I wonder what my cham is thinking. He goes about certain endeavors in the most difficult way possible. I don't think they have much capacity for "planning".
However, I have had some small success in "training" my chameleon to come out of his cage on command (he does not enjoy being handled) and turn his head in a particular direction I want him to look. I use pointing since verbal commands will not work. Since my cham is blind in one eye, I've used pointing to encourage him to turn his head when feeders are not in his visual field. Using positive reinforcement (food) seems to work well. I assume that's why your cham has learned where water comes from. He wants to find the easiest way to fulfill his basic needs and desires.
When my chameleon does not want to do something he simply won't, but more often than not I can compel him to do the simple things I've mentioned by simply pointing.
So yes, there is a certain amount of intelligence there, but it is not like what we see in many mammals and birds. It's sort of more primal (anything that will benefit the cham).
Also, please note my experience is only with one cham. I would imagine they are all a little different.
However, I have had some small success in "training" my chameleon to come out of his cage on command (he does not enjoy being handled) and turn his head in a particular direction I want him to look. I use pointing since verbal commands will not work. Since my cham is blind in one eye, I've used pointing to encourage him to turn his head when feeders are not in his visual field. Using positive reinforcement (food) seems to work well. I assume that's why your cham has learned where water comes from. He wants to find the easiest way to fulfill his basic needs and desires.
When my chameleon does not want to do something he simply won't, but more often than not I can compel him to do the simple things I've mentioned by simply pointing.
So yes, there is a certain amount of intelligence there, but it is not like what we see in many mammals and birds. It's sort of more primal (anything that will benefit the cham).
Also, please note my experience is only with one cham. I would imagine they are all a little different.
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
I've thought about this a lot over the years and realize part of my problem with it is the definition of "intelligence". I'm sure there are individuals of any species that seem more intelligent than others, but the behavior that makes us think so might have been pretty random, a risk, or sheer luck. After all, an animal that tries something atypical and suffers for it doesn't pass that risk-taking tendency on successfully. The animal that succeeds might live long enough to either teach its offspring the same trick, or pass that risk-taking tendency on. Do that over 1000 years and you might end up with a smarter sub group.
I don't like to generalize that any group of animals is less intelligent than another just because they don't happen to behave like I feel they should to earn the title. That's a human projection. I usually end up thinking that chameleons are as intelligent as they need to be in their little world. Not much more and not much less. Trying to decide if the species is intelligent because our captive ones learn how to take advantage of something in their captive world isn't really getting at the question. After all, if a captive cham doesn't do the right thing or learn something there isn't too much bad that will happen to them. We protect them from most risk.
If we were talking about species that use their wits more than simple instinct to survive (I mean opportunists such as ravens, monitors, coyotes, parrots, primates, etc), then there are certainly smarter individuals. Not all birds are opportunists. Some are what we would call stupid, but they are very successful anyway (owls and other raptors are rigid thinkers, don't learn easily, and don't handle stress or change well at all...ask falconers). But, their skills in tracking and anticipating the movements of flying prey, their reaction speed and eye-muscle coordination is incomparable.
Within a group of related species there is bound to be a range based on what it took each species to survive in their wild habitats. Habitats that varied or changed a lot or were less stable may tend to produce species that are able to adapt more easily...but very stable specialized habitats may produce species that are also very specialized but less tolerant of change. They are more likely to die out if for example habitat loss hits too quickly.
I also have this little theory that wide ranging or migratory animals tend to learn new things or change their behaviors more easily than very territorial ones. Migratory species have to adapt to a much more varied world and do it quickly along the way. Territorial ones have to know their space very minutely, but change it too much and they would be more easily confused.
So much of what chams do is instinct coupled with pretty specific physical specializations that give them special abilities. The need for extra intelligence may not make much difference to their survival in the wild.
My melleri seemed "smarter" to me, but was it because they responded more to me and seemed to adapt better to their free range indoor situation? Are social species a bit more intelligent than solitary ones because they need more of a range of flexible responses in order to deal with other individuals? And, as I am also a social species I can appreciate and understand this better? I don't know. All I really know is that they were more interesting to care for. However, even my most social melleri still walked the exact same patrol route around the house daily...and would be confused by a shoe blocking her way.
I don't like to generalize that any group of animals is less intelligent than another just because they don't happen to behave like I feel they should to earn the title. That's a human projection. I usually end up thinking that chameleons are as intelligent as they need to be in their little world. Not much more and not much less. Trying to decide if the species is intelligent because our captive ones learn how to take advantage of something in their captive world isn't really getting at the question. After all, if a captive cham doesn't do the right thing or learn something there isn't too much bad that will happen to them. We protect them from most risk.
If we were talking about species that use their wits more than simple instinct to survive (I mean opportunists such as ravens, monitors, coyotes, parrots, primates, etc), then there are certainly smarter individuals. Not all birds are opportunists. Some are what we would call stupid, but they are very successful anyway (owls and other raptors are rigid thinkers, don't learn easily, and don't handle stress or change well at all...ask falconers). But, their skills in tracking and anticipating the movements of flying prey, their reaction speed and eye-muscle coordination is incomparable.
Within a group of related species there is bound to be a range based on what it took each species to survive in their wild habitats. Habitats that varied or changed a lot or were less stable may tend to produce species that are able to adapt more easily...but very stable specialized habitats may produce species that are also very specialized but less tolerant of change. They are more likely to die out if for example habitat loss hits too quickly.
I also have this little theory that wide ranging or migratory animals tend to learn new things or change their behaviors more easily than very territorial ones. Migratory species have to adapt to a much more varied world and do it quickly along the way. Territorial ones have to know their space very minutely, but change it too much and they would be more easily confused.
So much of what chams do is instinct coupled with pretty specific physical specializations that give them special abilities. The need for extra intelligence may not make much difference to their survival in the wild.
My melleri seemed "smarter" to me, but was it because they responded more to me and seemed to adapt better to their free range indoor situation? Are social species a bit more intelligent than solitary ones because they need more of a range of flexible responses in order to deal with other individuals? And, as I am also a social species I can appreciate and understand this better? I don't know. All I really know is that they were more interesting to care for. However, even my most social melleri still walked the exact same patrol route around the house daily...and would be confused by a shoe blocking her way.
Last edited:
richardspencer1186
Member
cham intelligence
I generally tip my panther, Starr's food on the bottom of the enclosure, which is opposite my bed. He generally now waits for me at the bottom of the enclosure to feed him in the mornings!
However, he couldn't quite figure cup feeding of silkworms, but being a fairly friendly guy he took to hand feeding of silkies without a problem.
He also generally readily jumps on my hand, but then, will hiss at the same time!
So I'm not sure about the whole intelligence thing...some aspects of Starr's nature point to being smart, some aspects....less so!
I generally tip my panther, Starr's food on the bottom of the enclosure, which is opposite my bed. He generally now waits for me at the bottom of the enclosure to feed him in the mornings!
However, he couldn't quite figure cup feeding of silkworms, but being a fairly friendly guy he took to hand feeding of silkies without a problem.
He also generally readily jumps on my hand, but then, will hiss at the same time!
So I'm not sure about the whole intelligence thing...some aspects of Starr's nature point to being smart, some aspects....less so!
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