Intelligence in chameleons?

dodolah said:
as far as intelligence in hunting insects, i think chameleon has 'adapted' to such as a frail creature. Just as a baby impala immediately learns how to walk within an hour of his birth.

But, it really does not mean that chameleon is not without some intelligence.
Obvious one is the fact that they display a cognitive behavior.
the fact that they learn to know that you are their food supplier and the fact that every certain time, they will perch on the same spot for whatever reason.

any creatures that can do this proves that they are somewhat intelligent.

dumb as a hammer is a bit harsh :D
I say a snail is dumb as a hammer.

But to call a chameleon 'smart'.. i am not really sure that i can say so..

Define how much intelligence you need to see to label an animal as 'smart'...
In my opinion, a 'smart' animal is able to use tools to solve a problem.
certain birds and monkeys are the one that fall within this category (human too if you want to include us as part of animal kingdom).
Click to expand...

Yeah, good post. What is 'smart'?
 
Yeah, mine just look like the brightest crayons in the box... They are complete ding dongs, especially my veiled. He thinks that I am going to snack on him or something. I couldn't even begin to explain why everyone is so fascinated with them. I am totally nuts over them and it makes very little sense actually. :D
 
I think an animal that can see and comprehend in two totally different directions has a different type of brain. There may be other animals that can do this, but I don't know of them. I know that doesn't make them smart, but maybe it's why we get so attached to them. My veiled absolutely hates my 13 year old daughter even though she doesn't harrass it or anything. He recognizes her at once. Doesn't do any other memeber of the family this way including the dog or cat. Didn't know I would create this much controversy on this subject. My work is done!!
 
Maybe all this assumption about chameleon's lack of intelligence is projection?

And intelligence is not the end-all to something as complex in nature.

Just because something doesn't live up to your expectations of what "intelligence" is...doesn't mean it's as dumb as a bag of hammers.
 
Intelligence can be gauged through animals by the complexity of their communication. Chameleons simply do not have complex communication. Some species can make extremely low frequency calls. The call itself is not complex. It could be something like a mating call or a warning. The coloration while amazing is not at all a complex way to communicate. In most cases the body posture gives you more insight into reaction then the coloration. It is only after you judge this that you can assume the colors meaning. Any of these can be chaulked up to instinct rather then cognative reasoning.

The chameleons' tongue is really amazing for one reason. The ligament tissue that attaches it is normally found only in insects. They are the only know vertabrate with this tissue inside their body and on top of that it is their primary hunting tool.

The eyesight is amazing as well. A human's eyesight takes up 50% of the brains usuable capacity. I personally would assume that this figure is a higher number in a chameleon. This would not leave them alot of other room for the rest of the required thinking process that have to work in order to live. Kind of hard to believe that they would reserve useless space for thought over needed body functions.
 
My veiled is a chameleon. As far as his form, shape, motor, and physical abilities go, he is a very "above average" chameleon. He eats, hunts, seeks warmth, and cooler climes. He is a great climber. He defends himself against percieved threats. He's got incredible eyesight.

He is perfect for what he was meant to be.

On the chameleon 'intellegence' test, he gets an "A" from me.

But as far as getting what he wants from me ? No comparison to an Iguana I had for many years. He was a dog in scales.
 
Jordan said:
Intelligence can be gauged through animals by the complexity of their communication. Chameleons simply do not have complex communication. Some species can make extremely low frequency calls. The call itself is not complex. It could be something like a mating call or a warning. The coloration while amazing is not at all a complex way to communicate. In most cases the body posture gives you more insight into reaction then the coloration. It is only after you judge this that you can assume the colors meaning. Any of these can be chaulked up to instinct rather then cognative reasoning.

The chameleons' tongue is really amazing for one reason. The ligament tissue that attaches it is normally found only in insects. They are the only know vertabrate with this tissue inside their body and on top of that it is their primary hunting tool.

The eyesight is amazing as well. A human's eyesight takes up 50% of the brains usuable capacity. I personally would assume that this figure is a higher number in a chameleon. This would not leave them alot of other room for the rest of the required thinking process that have to work in order to live. Kind of hard to believe that they would reserve useless space for thought over needed body functions.
Click to expand...

actually, i read in the book somewhere that claims chameleon (especially veiled and panther) do communicate using low frequency calls.
They have been known to emit this calls to each other.
Especially when predators are around..

hmmm lemme google the link and provide it for you guys to read.
it'll take me a minute or two.
 
Hey .... that looks like an interesting article. Too bad you have to pay to see the entire thing. Maybe it's somewhere else online? I'll post if I can find it.

Dyesub Dave. :D
 
Use to be available to hear on Chameleon EZ online. It was in May 03 issue but it will no longer let me pull it up. Guess it is to old.

They had to speed it up. Kind of like the ALvin & the chipmunk effect with old tape players using record and FF. It really just sounds like a hoot from a barn owl.
 
Ashley said:
Yeah, mine just look like the brightest crayons in the box... They are complete ding dongs, especially my veiled. He thinks that I am going to snack on him or something. I couldn't even begin to explain why everyone is so fascinated with them. I am totally nuts over them and it makes very little sense actually. :D
Click to expand...

I too am questioning my intelligence here! I am hooked on these little creatures, fascinated, obsessed! Spend too much time on this forum, too much time staring at chameleons. My dogs, kids, and husband think I am nuts for staring at chameleon cages as much as I do!

Are Chameleons smart? Well, if you think "Wake up, Eat, Poop, Procreate, Hide, and Sleep" are the definition of smart then they are. They don't have to think about how they are going to pay their homeowners insurance(Florida-ACK!) or getting to work on time!
 
Actually now I am cracking up over this one..."Wake up, Eat, Poop, Procreate, Hide, and Sleep"

I know people like that ! LOL! :)
 
Julirs said:
I too am questioning my intelligence here! I am hooked on these little creatures, fascinated, obsessed! Spend too much time on this forum, too much time staring at chameleons. My dogs, kids, and husband think I am nuts for staring at chameleon cages as much as I do!

Are Chameleons smart? Well, if you think "Wake up, Eat, Poop, Procreate, Hide, and Sleep" are the definition of smart then they are. They don't have to think about how they are going to pay their homeowners insurance(Florida-ACK!) or getting to work on time!
Click to expand...

Chameleons are smarter than people...they don't have to pay insurance or go to work. They lounge around in trees all day taking in the sun and finding snacks.
Wish I could do that.

By the way... from present day all the way back a million years...humans wake up, poop, procreate, hide, hunt and sleep".
 
Hi, new to this forum...
Smart, intelligent, clever....
How about:
cunning, devious & thoughful...
I've had my Yemen for 2 years now... Here's something i think most people will find hard to believe..
Living in London, UK.. I quite often put 'Colin' outside in an apple tree (small one).. There he happily sits at the top and soaks up the rays... I sit there and watch him..
Now i've painted the picture, let me tell tou what happens next..
When young he would regularly scan the horizon looking for higher perches.
He would then try to make his escape..
I would see this, let him climb onto my hand and place him back in the apple tree.
Nothing unusual so far i hear you say..
Well here's the thing.. I started to (as you do) talk to him and give him a finger wagging when he started to climb down.. You know "Bad Colin" and "Go on back up the tree".. And to my utter amazement he would turn around and climb back up....!!
I though this a one off... I would return inside the house and observe him from the kitchen.. When i was out of sight he would begin the descent again...
I returned to the garden.. Told him off, wagged my finger, pointed upwards...and blow me he turned around and climbed back up....
Since then i have had similar success and he wakes me up with coffee and toast in the mornings now with the newpaper firmly gripped in his mouth (joke)

I suppose to summerize... chameleons like many animals can and will learn by repitition. Memory neurons will spark.. If that constitutes intelligence.. Then yes they are smart, Intelligent and clever..
 
Jordan said:
Intelligence can be gauged through animals by the complexity of their communication. Chameleons simply do not have complex communication. Some species can make extremely low frequency calls. The call itself is not complex. It could be something like a mating call or a warning. The coloration while amazing is not at all a complex way to communicate. In most cases the body posture gives you more insight into reaction then the coloration. It is only after you judge this that you can assume the colors meaning. Any of these can be chaulked up to instinct rather then cognative reasoning.
Click to expand...

Just because we don't speak the language doesn't mean it's not complex. ;)
We may only be able to decipher a very small section of what chameleons can communicate to eachother. Subtle changes in color or posture may mean a lot to them, but we may hardly notice them.
About the infrasound; has any more been published about these calls other than Barnett's article on veileds (the one with the famous soundclip)? I'm asking because I don't think that article is enough to determine that chameleon infrasound isn't complex. A lot more study is needed, IMHO.

Suzanne

By the way, not all species with complex languages are considered intelligent(example: bees).
 
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