Im bloody confused between reddit and the differing opinions!

lurker9090

lurker9090

Established Member
Im so freaking confused. I'm new to this community and want to have a healthy Cham. I've been doing so much research for my Cham but keep just getting more and more confused.
Neptune the chameleon says reptivite with d3 twice a month is good (aslong as im using calcium without d3 on the other days). Well reddit says I will be poisoning my Cham with phosphorous using reptivite.

Chameleon academy (who has been studying this topic for 40+ years) says a 7inch distance between the closest branch and the t5 6% uvb is good distance, while reddit says I will be burning the chameleons eyes and should instead have 15 inch distance.

Don't get me started on the water cup.

I don't want to end up with a dead Cham. But if I'm not a scientist myself, who do I trust?
 
You will find that everyone here seems to avoid the Reddit chameleon community 😂 I started the beginning of this year. The wonderful people here helped me get my sick guy back in good health. I personally trust this community and not Reddit. Chameleon academy and Neptune are fantastic and well recommended by everyone here.
 
Ugh, there is so much conflicting information out there. Its super frustrating and so overwhelming because you want to do right by your chameleon and have it thrive and live a long life.

I can tell you what I did, I did a deep dive into those teaching husbandry skills. What are they teaching? Why are they teaching it? Is there science and evidence that backs this up? If so, where is it so I can read it for myself. Is the person willing to continue to learn and grow? Do they accept feedback or does feedback turn into an argument? How do they do when you ask questions? Another important factor for me, is how close is the husbandry being taught to the animals natural habitat? Chameleons have a bad reputation for being fragile, but if we can replicate where they live in nature, they are actually quite hardy animals and we are seeing their lifespan in captivity lengthen.

After looking around for a while, I decided to go with the Chameleon Academy, Neptune the Chameleon and this Forum. All three have the same husbandry techniques that felt best to me and made sense to me. Plus on here, if I am doing something wrong people don't yell at me or shame me, they teach me and help me understand why.

Ultimately its your decision on who you listen to for feedback and why you listen to them. Another tip, once you decided to go with someone's husbandry techniques, use ALL of it, don't pick and choose from a bunch of different people. The husbandry that is set up is a whole system so unfortunately picking and choosing different husbandry techniques doesn't work well.

Best of luck to you whichever route you go. I hope you do stick around, this is a really awesome place to be. And if you have any other questions we are all here ready to answer them :)
 
lurker9090 said:
Im so freaking confused. I'm new to this community and want to have a healthy Cham. I've been doing so much research for my Cham but keep just getting more and more confused.
Neptune the chameleon says reptivite with d3 twice a month is good (aslong as im using calcium without d3 on the other days). Well reddit says I will be poisoning my Cham with phosphorous using reptivite.

Chameleon academy (who has been studying this topic for 40+ years) says a 7inch distance between the closest branch and the t5 6% uvb is good distance, while reddit says I will be burning the chameleons eyes and should instead have 15 inch distance.

Don't get me started on the water cup.

I don't want to end up with a dead Cham. But if I'm not a scientist myself, who do I trust?
Click to expand...
I've seen so much [verified within the community] information on reddit.

I am sure there are people that are great on there. But in general that community seems really behind.

I highly suggest:

chameleonforums.com (I've learned SO much on here)
chameleonacademy.com / Bill Strand
Neptune the chameleon
The Chameleon Enthusiasts facebook page (which Bill Strand is an admin of)

These are all as trustworthy as it gets IMO. The information is phenomenal.
 
There's alot of conflicting info out there. Completely agree, back when I was beginning as caretaker, I decided to look for info from someone local to my area. I figured however they were keeping theirs, incl diet n supplememts, would prob be a good option. I'm super lucky, and discovered that I'm 5 min away from Kammerflage, 15 from Dr. Greek n 20 from Bill Strand.
Lighting n supplements really is an art, and will also depend on where you live, breed, how much natural uvb from sun exposure, etc etc
I suggest that you read all sorts of different info, and apply whichever of the recommendations that makes sense to you, put it all into a husbandry checklist and then request a review on this site. Here you will have exposure to some of the best and very experienced caretakers, breeders and even herb(reptile) vets, most will be happy to go over it with you. Good luck and I think it's awesome that you care so much about what's best for these amazing creatures.
Camilla
Ps Petr Necas is also a awesome source.
 
I never go to Reddit for anything for no reason in particular. When I was first starting to learn how to take care for my chameleon, I found lots of info and sites, but the one that stuck out was the forum. It wasn’t just being told to do XYZ, but there was discussion of why to do XYZ and how to achieve that in other ways. Then I quickly found the most knowledgeable people such as Bill Strand & Petr Necas - people who had basically devoted so much of their lives to chameleons and learning what they need and their ideas were followed on the forum. Then I discovered Bill Strand’s podcast where he discusses in depth, often with specialists in their fields, the more in depth ‘why’ of chameleon husbandry. Knowing the why is super important. For example, why do we have the uvb a 5.0 or 6% and at a distance of 8-9”? Well, experts who have gone to Madagascar and other areas where chameleons are living measured the uv index the chameleons are exposed to and found that a UVI of 3.0 is ideal. If you have a solarmeter 6.5 and measure the 5.0/6% as you are setting up your enclosure, you’ll find it’s at 3.0 pretty consistently at a distance of between 7-9”. I’ve heard others say that I’d you disagree with the mods on Reddit, you are banned. On the forum, if you disagree with husbandry practices, it is discussed and becomes a learning experience for all. The forum is open to new ideas and growth and recognizes that as we learn more about chameleons, the husbandry standards change. It is all about the chameleons here and their well being…not the personal egos of any one individual. This is why I am here. I’m sure everyone has their own reasons and you’ll have to find yours. 💗
 
First let me welcome you to CF. This forum has helped so much in understanding what my cham needs and he has thrived. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here and new discussions come up every day. So feel free to ask questions.
 
I forgot to mention something: The main reason WHY I chose to sources I chose....

So going through all these places (facebook groups, reddit, etc), because I saw so much conflicting information I decided to take the few places that had NON-conflicting information (as much as possible). This way I had a good gauge on what people are doing with verification that it works. I also understand some people just have different things that work. But what I personally wanted to find was multiple sources who were all consistent with each other. I think that's a key factor in determining who you go with.
 
Steve A said:
I've seen so much [verified within the community] information on reddit.

I am sure there are people that are great on there. But in general that community seems really behind.

I highly suggest:

chameleonforums.com (I've learned SO much on here)
chameleonacademy.com / Bill Strand
Neptune the chameleon
The Chameleon Enthusiasts facebook page (which Bill Strand is an admin of)

These are all as trustworthy as it gets IMO. The information is phenomenal.
Click to expand...
I meant to sad bad/conflicting info here, regarding information on reddit lol
 
elizaann2 said:
Ugh, there is so much conflicting information out there. Its super frustrating and so overwhelming because you want to do right by your chameleon and have it thrive and live a long life.

I can tell you what I did, I did a deep dive into those teaching husbandry skills. What are they teaching? Why are they teaching it? Is there science and evidence that backs this up? If so, where is it so I can read it for myself. Is the person willing to continue to learn and grow? Do they accept feedback or does feedback turn into an argument? How do they do when you ask questions? Another important factor for me, is how close is the husbandry being taught to the animals natural habitat? Chameleons have a bad reputation for being fragile, but if we can replicate where they live in nature, they are actually quite hardy animals and we are seeing their lifespan in captivity lengthen.

After looking around for a while, I decided to go with the Chameleon Academy, Neptune the Chameleon and this Forum. All three have the same husbandry techniques that felt best to me and made sense to me. Plus on here, if I am doing something wrong people don't yell at me or shame me, they teach me and help me understand why.

Ultimately its your decision on who you listen to for feedback and why you listen to them. Another tip, once you decided to go with someone's husbandry techniques, use ALL of it, don't pick and choose from a bunch of different people. The husbandry that is set up is a whole system so unfortunately picking and choosing different husbandry techniques doesn't work well.

Best of luck to you whichever route you go. I hope you do stick around, this is a really awesome place to be. And if you have any other questions we are all here ready to answer them :)
Click to expand...
I did the same thing! I moved away from the Reddit forum for pets because people are so negative, there is a huge “vent-hole” moderator who yells at people and drives them away. And the water cups never worked for me, my chameleon was dehydrated.

OP, there is a great podcast by Chameleon Academy called the Chameleon Academy Podcast (I listen on Spotify) which confronts a lot of misinformation, even going as far as directly addressing the Reddit community/cup drinking. I also agree, Neptunes videos are wonderful!
 
Steve A said:
I've seen so much [verified within the community] information on reddit.

I am sure there are people that are great on there. But in general that community seems really behind.

I highly suggest:

chameleonforums.com (I've learned SO much on here)
chameleonacademy.com / Bill Strand
Neptune the chameleon
The Chameleon Enthusiasts facebook page (which Bill Strand is an admin of)

These are all as trustworthy as it gets IMO. The information is phenomenal.
Click to expand...
Are there 2 chameleon Enthusiasts pages ? As I have visited one and there doesn't seem to be any admin / rules and some members sharing links ( which I have not clicked on ) which iam sceptical about?
 
lurker9090 said:
Im so freaking confused. I'm new to this community and want to have a healthy Cham. I've been doing so much research for my Cham but keep just getting more and more confused.
Neptune the chameleon says reptivite with d3 twice a month is good (aslong as im using calcium without d3 on the other days). Well reddit says I will be poisoning my Cham with phosphorous using reptivite.

Chameleon academy (who has been studying this topic for 40+ years) says a 7inch distance between the closest branch and the t5 6% uvb is good distance, while reddit says I will be burning the chameleons eyes and should instead have 15 inch distance.

Don't get me started on the water cup.

I don't want to end up with a dead Cham. But if I'm not a scientist myself, who do I trust?
Click to expand...
I am kinda loving your post... First off welcome to the forum.

Now let me help you with your questions...
Yes reptivite has a higher phosphorus level. This does not mean that using it 2 times a month is going to kill your cham. So they are wrong there. I believe that one of the reasons @Gingero does recommend reptivite with D3 is because this supplement is one of the easiest ones for people to get in their local big box store. So right off the bat supplements are taken care of and done correctly. So using this supplement 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th and then using your calcium without D3 at all other feedings is one way of supplementing CORRECTLY.

So this is one brand and one option for correct supplementation. I happen to only use repashy products. Does not make my option more recommended or less. It is just another option that is also CORRECT.

So I always recommend a 8-9 inch distance from screen to the branch with a 5.0 or 6% bulb in a single bulb T5HO fixture that is sitting on top of the cage. This puts the cham's back in a 3-4 UVI which is acceptable. I learned this from Bill Strand (Chameleon Academy). I have also tested this distance with a solarmeter and it is spot on.
Now there are also variations to this. So it can be easy to also miss understand based on what a person is speaking about. Fixture type and bulb strength along with what screening impacts the UVI level that the cham is exposed to.
For example if someone has a younger baby I would tell them while it is young to lift the fixture up off the cage 4 inches and then have branches below no closer than 5 inches from the screen with a 5.0 or 6% bulb in a single bulb T5HO fixture. This is because babies screen climb the top panel. At 4 inches off the top of the cage it puts the baby in a max exposure level of about a 6 UVI. Which is still safe and within limits. Proven and tested by many breeders. :)

How I feel about standing Water in a cup...

Angry Looney Tunes GIF by Bombay Softwares



So here is my advice.... Avoid reddit like the plague. We have had members here try to put the correct info onto that platform and they delete it and the user. They are only about promoting their ideas. And unfortunately a lot of the advice they preach is incorrect.

Lean on us here in the forum. You will find that we are a passionate group of people here and we are very cautious about the type of information that people will promote. Which is why all of us that actively do husbandry forms are on the same page. I might add we learned from Bill Strand and other experienced members here when we were new like you are now.

Chameleon academy is wonderful and accurate. Just remember there are variations.

Neptune the Chameleon is amazing and accurate but again remember there are variations.

I hope this helps. And please do not hesitate to ask questions, everyone here is happy to help you.
 
lurker9090 said:
Im so freaking confused. I'm new to this community and want to have a healthy Cham. I've been doing so much research for my Cham but keep just getting more and more confused.
Neptune the chameleon says reptivite with d3 twice a month is good (aslong as im using calcium without d3 on the other days). Well reddit says I will be poisoning my Cham with phosphorous using reptivite.

Chameleon academy (who has been studying this topic for 40+ years) says a 7inch distance between the closest branch and the t5 6% uvb is good distance, while reddit says I will be burning the chameleons eyes and should instead have 15 inch distance.

Don't get me started on the water cup.

I don't want to end up with a dead Cham. But if I'm not a scientist myself, who do I trust?
Click to expand...
Don’t even listen to the Reddit community almost everyone who cares or is actually knowledgeable stays away from Reddit
 
lurker9090 said:
Im so freaking confused. I'm new to this community and want to have a healthy Cham. I've been doing so much research for my Cham but keep just getting more and more confused.
Neptune the chameleon says reptivite with d3 twice a month is good (aslong as im using calcium without d3 on the other days). Well reddit says I will be poisoning my Cham with phosphorous using reptivite.

Chameleon academy (who has been studying this topic for 40+ years) says a 7inch distance between the closest branch and the t5 6% uvb is good distance, while reddit says I will be burning the chameleons eyes and should instead have 15 inch distance.

Don't get me started on the water cup.

I don't want to end up with a dead Cham. But if I'm not a scientist myself, who do I trust?
Click to expand...
The internet has brought us an incredible amount of information and has lowered the barrier to broadcast your experiences. It also has made the qualifications to say what you want to be zero. And so your way to navigate this world is not by what pops up first in a google search, but by investigating the sources. Do a Google search on the people giving the information to learn about them and what they have done. And then you can decide who to trust. I know it is frustrating to have so much information so easily available and there to be zero quality control. But that is where we are. Though I like this better than when there was a huge barrier to sharing (book publishers) and there was just scraps of information available. So, we are better off now! We just have to develop skills in vetting our sources.

The Chameleon Academy outreach is defined by focusing on helping you understand why. In the case of distance from the UVB bulb it is a function of the strength of the bulb, the filtering between the bulb and the chameleon and the UVB intensity at the chameleons skin. But the goal is not to memorize something, but to understand how to work with these parameters so that you can easily switch to other UVB technologies and, also, change the basking UVB intensity as we learn more about the needs of chameleons. The UVI 3 goal has been shown to be effective for Veileds, Panthers, and Carpets and serves as a good starting point, but Jackson's behavior suggests that they may want access to higher levels and the deep forest species like cristatus and Oshaughnessyii will not want it that intense. So it is a fluid exploration. Through the interviews on the podcast you will come alongside the exploration and can be part of each step we took to establish the UVI 3 milestone. It may be a little too much to bite off right now when you are beginning and just want to set up your chameleon, but you can take some comfort in knowing that the entire research is readily available to you to review whenever you are ready. Also know that this is dynamic. We are constantly building on what we are learning. In the case of establishing UVI 3 as an effective UVB intensity, Pete Hawkins did an experiment. I read about that and recreated the experiment and added another aspect to it. Jonathan Hill (@Dridrop12 ) listened to my results on the podcast and expanded the study. Michael Nash (@javadi ) absorbed all of this and expanded the research himself which resulted in a peer reviewed paper being published. This is an example of a dynamic community. And there is much work to be done. UVI 3 has only been proven to be effective. We can't say it is the ideal until we find the lower limit of effectiveness. We determined it was not useful to go above UVI 3 for Veileds and carpets, but more work needs to be done to determine if UVI 2, for example, would be effective as well. So, the Chameleon Academy outreach is a snapshot in time and will be continually evolving.

The point is that it is easier to judge an influencer or a community for integrity and philosophical approach than it is to evaluate the individual husbandry points. Take the time to explore your options. Take in what each digital "culture" offers and you will begin to develop a comfort level. And don't be worried if you aren't sure. There is no blood oath you are signing. You can switch information sources when you change your mind. Unfortunately, this does take time. And you need to set up your chameleon now. So, just pick the group you feel the most comfortable with and go with the set-up they advise. Then you can get support from that group.

There are a lot of personalities in this community. Every group will say they are the best. So, yes, it is confusing. I fear there is no way to sort it all out without a data filtering by methodical evaluation of the source!
 
Beautifully written @DeremensisBlue.

I always say there is more than 1 way to successfully keep a chameleon. My recommendations come from my own experiences, up-to-date research, and knowing that my content is targeted for new chameleon keepers just getting started. So I try to keep it as simple as possible with the lowest margin for error and highest chance for success. I hope that people will get to a point where their knowledge and understanding of UVB, supplements, different hydration methods, etc. allows them the ability to customize their care for their species & environment. As long as we continue to embrace a growth mindset & be willing and wanting to help others getting started, then I think this community will continue to flourish. As soon as we become set in our ways & closed off to change, our beloved chameleons will pay the price.
 
Oh. Those Reddit guys. I watch the subreddit and they’re for sure different. I saw them tell someone their Cham died because they got their info from Neptune. They’re so against chameleon academy. They might have a good idea here and there and they’re probably really good caretakers in their own way. But they come across as jerks. This forum has been so nice and welcoming, I feel a million times better about asking my silly questions here.
 
Throwingstones said:
Oh. Those Reddit guys. I watch the subreddit and they’re for sure different. I saw them tell someone their Cham died because they got their info from Neptune. They’re so against chameleon academy. They might have a good idea here and there and they’re probably really good caretakers in their own way. But they come across as jerks. This forum has been so nice and welcoming, I feel a million times better about asking my silly questions here.
Click to expand...
I don't think any question is silly. If I need to know about something I get plenty of help and knowledge here. I'm sure I have had people think I was dumb with all the questions I had at first but they still walked me through Chameleons for dummies . Thank you everyone
 
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