how important is misting?

[Chameleon Company]

As with so many things regarding chameleon husbandry, the husbandry measures we provide, in hopes of replicating all that is good about their natural environment, end up being skewered by combinations of 1) what is do-able with the means we have; 2) what is marketed towards the keeper's aesthetics; 3) our concerns to manage the system (often leading to over-management); and 4) bad info.

In this instance, I obviously take issue with the notion that water needs to be regularly put into a chameleon's eyes as part of a normal cleaning mechanism. Not that you stated it that way, but taking all that has been said over the years in the forums, I am making that the consensus notion that is often trotted out. In your case, you spray directly onto your chameleon 3 times a day, not directly into its eyes, but still on the animal. I could make a case that such is not natural, at least with regard to the frequency of getting wet, and possibly the means of delivery. Where it had been noted, by you or another, that getting water into the chameleon's eyes so that it can "clean out dirt and dust", or however it was put, I would suggest that might also be a backwards notion, in that it might better accomplish putting debris and dust into the chameleon's eyes. I have hand flushed chameleon eyes with some of the best vets in the country. Sterile eye rinse was used, and the process was very much governed by wanting to minimize contamination with dust and debris in what we felt was a very unnatural process.

I want to be sure that my words are not confused. I am not saying that the wiping of the eyes by a chameleon, on a branch, etc., is not "natural". We wipe our own eyes for whatever reason. I submit though that it is usually a reaction, not a pro-action, and that the animal may be reacting to an temproary aggravation. Barring a medical issue, we do not need to assist the chameleon in washing its eyes. While it is also quite normal for a chameleon to get wet once every 1-2 days, that is not to say that it needs to have water sprayed directly on it to maintain humidity, or into its eyes to keep them clean. Manifest problems can definitely arise from a chameleon that is too wet too much of the time.

I am not offering such and suggesting that your chameleon is at risk. Your chameleon may be the happiest chameleon in the world . with a great and attentive keeper. If nothing else, maybe some readers here will aim less for their chameleon's eyes when they provide moisture, and trust that the chameleon is equipped to best take care of itself given conditions most natural to its optimal wild existence. Thanks.

 

[ToniandGizmo]

As with so many things regarding chameleon husbandry, the husbandry measures we provide, in hopes of replicating all that is good about their natural environment, end up being skewered by combinations of 1) what is do-able with the means we have; 2) what is marketed towards the keeper's aesthetics; 3) our concerns to manage the system (often leading to over-management); and 4) bad info.

In this instance, I obviously take issue with the notion that water needs to be regularly put into a chameleon's eyes as part of a normal cleaning mechanism. Not that you stated it that way, but taking all that has been said over the years in the forums, I am making that the consensus notion that is often trotted out. In your case, you spray directly onto your chameleon 3 times a day, not directly into its eyes, but still on the animal. I could make a case that such is not natural, at least with regard to the frequency of getting wet, and possibly the means of delivery. Where it had been noted, by you or another, that getting water into the chameleon's eyes so that it can "clean out dirt and dust", or however it was put, I would suggest that might also be a backwards notion, in that it might better accomplish putting debris and dust into the chameleon's eyes. I have hand flushed chameleon eyes with some of the best vets in the country. Sterile eye rinse was used, and the process was very much governed by wanting to minimize contamination with dust and debris in what we felt was a very unnatural process.

I want to be sure that my words are not confused. I am not saying that the wiping of the eyes by a chameleon, on a branch, etc., is not "natural". We wipe our own eyes for whatever reason. I submit though that it is usually a reaction, not a pro-action, and that the animal may be reacting to an temproary aggravation. Barring a medical issue, we do not need to assist the chameleon in washing its eyes. While it is also quite normal for a chameleon to get wet once every 1-2 days, that is not to say that it needs to have water sprayed directly on it to maintain humidity, or into its eyes to keep them clean. Manifest problems can definitely arise from a chameleon that is too wet too much of the time.

I am not offering such and suggesting that your chameleon is at risk. Your chameleon may be the happiest chameleon in the world . with a great and attentive keeper. If nothing else, maybe some readers here will aim less for their chameleon's eyes when they provide moisture, and trust that the chameleon is equipped to best take care of itself given conditions most natural to its optimal wild existence. Thanks.

Jim,

Maybe I worded it incorrectly. I NEVER hit my cham with a direct spray of water and I would NEVER spray directly into his eyes. I spray OVER him. I do this because I try to duplicate the conditions of being in a cloud (not a down pour). The mist falls downward and gently envelops his body, much like it would in nature. Never hits him from the side. I don't mist him with the intent of cleaning his eyes. And he doesn't always roll "clean" his eyes, he just sometimes begins the process himself.

I also realize that you are in Florida. I've been to Florida a few times. It is paradise for a chameleon owner because it is VERY humid there. I'm out here on the West Coast. It is very dry out here. So I think that we all have to also take into account what our own local weather temps and humdity levels are and act accordingly and in the best interest of our chams.

Please forgive me if this caused any confusion.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I agree completely and I would submit that my chameleons have not suffered from my watering techniques.
Very often I am misting only once a day (in the morning) and basically wetting plants and the top screen so that there is an increased amount of dripping for awhile.
The drippers run all day long and all of my animals are observed drinking from them.
Additionally, any water required for cleaning their eyes is available from the dripper and I have witnessed all of my animals at one point or another sitting directly under the drip, allowing the water to run over them. This is a voluntary action by the animal.
I would also add that there are species that require a more humid/cooler environment (ie: montanes) which can be better achieved with additional mistings.
So much of this depends on experience, observation and common chameleon sense. Often techniques and schedules are recommended to new keepers within certain parameters of providing sufficient hydration and unnecessary amounts of misting, etc. are suggested in order to insure the animal is provided drinking opportunities.
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the animal will take care of itself and have no trouble finding the source of water in it's enclosure.

-Brad

edit: I would also like to add that, aside from extreme circumstances (ie: freshly imported WC animals, etc.), I do not agree with placing a chameleon in the shower.

 

[ToniandGizmo]

I agree completely and I would submit that my chameleons have not suffered from my watering techniques.
Very often I am misting only once a day (in the morning) and basically wetting plants and the top screen so that there is an increased amount of dripping for awhile.
The drippers run all day long and all of my animals are observed drinking from them.
Additionally, any water required for cleaning their eyes is available from the dripper and I have witnessed all of my animals at one point or another sitting directly under the drip, allowing the water to run over them. This is a voluntary action by the animal.
I would also add that there are species that require a more humid/cooler environment (ie: montanes) which can be better achieved with additional mistings.
So much of this depends on experience, observation and common chameleon sense. Often techniques and schedules are recommended to new keepers within certain parameters of providing sufficient hydration and unnecessary amounts of misting, etc. are suggested in order to insure the animal is provided drinking opportunities.
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the animal will take care of itself and have no trouble finding the source of water in it's enclosure.

-Brad

edit: I would also like to add that, aside from extreme circumstances (ie: freshly imported WC animals, etc.), I do not agree with placing a chameleon in the shower.

I too have seen Gizmo do that exact same thing (put his head in his dripping plant for the very same reason). His dripper is on throughout the entire day. My misting is more to raise the humidity rather than stimulate his drinking. He's a robust drinker and seems to need no encouragement. Drinks when he needs to whether he's being misted or not.

I also don't buy into showering a healthy animal. Having said that, I know many owners do this with their healthy animals with no ill affects. Some chams I guess even learn how to relax and enjoy it. It's just not something I do.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Maybe I worded it incorrectly.

No, I do not think so. As I noted, and as is common with forum dynamics, My post was not a dirested critique to your care. It was to a general consensus notion that has been expressed in prior threads in many forums, and that notion is that one must induce a washing of the animals eyes and/or that water in the eyes is a goal regarding how the water is delivered. This thread raised the issue once again.


I think that Brad put it very well, basically to provide the animal with the opportunity to manage itself, rather than "over manage" for it. In line with that philosophy (I think) is that if you are providing a husbandry aspect that deviates from what would be seen as an exact replication of a wild environment, the greater the deviation, the more thought you need to put into the choice. Be cautious in making too many cause-and-effect assumptions that favorably support the deviation, while ignoring others that might raise a warning. Without writing all afternoon, in this discussion one must include foggers and fine misters, and their frequency, at one end, and simple drips or rains once a day at the other, the volume, the aim, etc., and why. There is a good amount of info in this thread already to be digested as folks draw conclusions. Back to work !

 

[ToniandGizmo]

No, I do not think so. As I noted, and as is common with forum dynamics, My post was not a dirested critique to your care. It was to a general consensus notion that has been expressed in prior threads in many forums, and that notion is that one must induce a washing of the animals eyes and/or that water in the eyes is a goal regarding how the water is delivered. This thread raised the issue once again.


I think that Brad put it very well, basically to provide the animal with the opportunity to manage itself, rather than "over manage" for it. In line with that philosophy (I think) is that if you are providing a husbandry aspect that deviates from what would be seen as an exact replication of a wild environment, the greater the deviation, the more thought you need to put into the choice. Be cautious in making too many cause-and-effect assumptions that favorably support the deviation, while ignoring others that might raise a warning. Without writing all afternoon, in this discussion one must include foggers and fine misters, and their frequency, at one end, and simple drips or rains once a day at the other, the volume, the aim, etc., and why. There is a good amount of info in this thread already to be digested as folks draw conclusions. Back to work !

Well said Jim,

The phrases "over manage" and "too many cause-and-effect assumptions" gives great pause to the message. Thank you. These are now added to my thought process on chameleon care.

Chameleon ownership has once again remeinded me that the more I learn, the more there is to learn. Take care.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy All,

Some of my rambling thoughts about chameleon hydration…

Being somewhat of an ARPA (Anal Retentive Painfully Analytic), I often think, re-think and re-re-think about the decisions and choices I’ve made regarding chameleon husbandry (and everything else in life). Chameleon hydration is, of course, one of those topics that I have re-hashed over and over in my mind. Am I supplying too much water leading to an unforeseen detriment to the chameleon or is “excessive” misting merely insuring maximum hydration? Most often, keepers are able to supply water via some mechanism that allows their chameleon to not only survive but to thrive. Those whose chameleons merely survived or worse yet, died of suboptimal hydration or dehydration, may have been sadly misinformed that either a couple of quick squirts a day of water on a plastic plant was enough or that only a water bowl or a waterfall was needed as an effective means of supplying water. There will always be the odd chameleon reported here and there that did learn to survive just using a water bowl as a sole source for water but those occurrences are not the norm. For every chameleon that figured out drinking from a bowl, hundreds of others didn’t and died.

Working it backwards (or is this really forwards?), a chameleon needs a source of drinking water to maintain proper hydration. The water needs to be supplied in such a way and for long enough as to be identifiable by the chameleon as drinkable water to potentially trigger a drinking response. Automated misting, hand misting, drippers, humidifiers, etc. all have their pluses and minuses towards fulfilling a chameleon’s hydration requirements. All chameleon species’ hydration requirements are not the same, so for my purposes here let’s talk about a generalized grouping of Panthers and Veileds. Environmental/body temperature along with humidity levels and water intake are probably the most dominate variables (not to let juicy hornworms and silkworms go unacknowledged) in the hydration equation. Simply put, hotter and drier means more water intake is required to balance the equation. If we fill-in the variables with, for example, 90F basking, 70F ambient, 40% humidity and daily consumption of water, this will result in a hydrated chameleon thus balancing the equation. This probably isn’t the best way of describing hydration but it does bring into the equation the issue of humidity. Even though many panther locales have high humidity it isn’t necessary to duplicate that high humidity (>70%). In Dr. Ferguson’s panther book he comments that: “Despite the high humidity of their habitat, panther chameleons do not seem to require this in captive environments as long as they have opportunity to drink daily. We have observed no low-humidity problems, such as shedding difficulties, with indoor humidites of 40 to 50%. At these humidities transfer of airborne diseases to inhabitants of adjacent cages and skin infections have been minimal in our laboratory over the last decade.” Opposite of overly humid conditions is what many keepers face in dry winter and desert conditions where the humidity may drop to single digit levels if not artificially boosted. A chameleon’s water intake may increase in low humidity environments in an attempt to compensate for higher water losses. At some point the equation can’t be balanced by the chameleon alone and we need to intercede by artificially increasing the humidity using, most often, a humidifier or through misting.

Simple cup/bottle drippers, as a means of supplying drinking water, have been successfully used probably as long as chameleons have been kept in captivity. Most chameleons eventually recognize a dripper’s water as a drinkable source especially if the drops are cascading down nearby leaves. The movement of the leaves and the drops themselves are usually enough to trigger a drinking response. The combination of a dripper and simple hand misting (5-10-15-20 minutes) can have a greater effect than either alone at triggering a drinking response. The presence of large water droplets “misted” combined with a dripper not only more effectively triggers a drinking response but then follows it up with the longer term availability of the dripper’s water. The addition of misting has the benefit of increasing the humidity in low humidity conditions. The downside of this method is that someone needs to be there to do the hand-misting and dripper refilling. Excess water will need to be dealt with by some means of collection and disposal.

An automated misting system offers the added benefit of a long term (many days), unattended supply of drinking water and an increase in humidity levels. If a nozzle and pump are selected that create a misty-drippy effect then it can be used as effectively as the dripper/hand mister in the previous example. An ultra-fine mist alone is not as effective at chameleon hydration as a “mist” that combines larger droplets with the some lesser amount of fine mist. Also, a long-term, automated, single source dripper alone may not be as effective as a combination of automated dripping and fine misting.

In summary, although there are other effective methods for maintaining chameleon hydration, many keepers have found that using an automated misting system for 5-15-20 minutes twice a day has provided their chameleon with a source of clean, inviting drinking water thus maintaining a peak hydration level has effectively eliminated most concerns of sub-optimal hydration. Note also that it is not necessary to have an automated system that mists the entire enclosure. A dry zone may be preferred by the chameleon especially if there is little interest/need in hydration at that point in time. Also, there is room for improvement. Better methods of providing heated water as well as nozzles and pumps that do a better job of creating a combination of some mist and mostly raindrops may be appreciated by our kept chameleons.

 

[reptoman]

Just thought I would share what I did for my Panthers. This is a pic of their cages with an ultrasonic humidifier in between them. I pipe (1 1/2 PVC pipe around $10) the fog directly out of the output and in through the top of both cages. I bought a $20 digital timer from Lowes and set the humidifier to come on for 20 minutes about every 2-2 1/2 hours all day. I did this so I could be sure they had some water available all day. You can see the moisture buildup on the top screen where the pipe is. When the fog is done pouring out, they will often climb across the top and lick up some of the droplets off of the screen and the fog does produce some droplets on the leaves of the plants. I still mist their cages in the morning before work and as soon as I get home.Although they did not seem to like the fog at first, it does not seem to bother them at all now. It took a couple of days until they were used to it coming on.View attachment 9531