how do you choose which photo?

[fleetwoodchams]

Oh boy, I cant say I'm excited to see this thread re-surface. LOL I started this one out of frustration. haha, after losing month after month and then putting hours in to the photo that sparked this thread it was a hot head that prevailed.

Just a note here, I dont care about the prize. I just like the ribbon under your name and recognition for a good picture. and I was pretty upset that photos with digitally added props would win over a real one.

Its all good though, I just stopped entering and now only enter every once in a while as its pretty frustrating.

I judge based on the photo, the quality and the photographers eye for a great shot. I understand popularity, but its a photo contest and should be based purely on the photo.

I'm right there with you piglet.
I have spoken to Brad about how to make a photo better, but I can see he is a one man show. That's a lot to handle for one person. Also I must agree that some members win over and over again. I've heard the gump about conspiracy but that not it, but there is favorites whether one wants to admit it our not.
Kinda goes back to the conversation we had about reputation dots. (do a search for - membership levels)
No disrespect intended. But it gets dis-heartening to others that try.
I truly believe many who enter would be happy with a medal even if they didn't get $50 bucks . Perhaps a buy one get something by the sponsors as another type of award for those not in 1st place. Always good for business and moral.
By the way can you post that photo you spoke of. I am really wanting to see it now.

Thanks

 

[pigglett79]

Here is it, all real and I made the antlers. I also linked the video that we made of our antics trying to get the shot. Didn't even get third place. The theme was holiday for December's contest.

I admit, not a superb photo or best quality but I thought for sure I would get points for originality haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3VH6SiZWp4

Happy viewing.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Here is it, all real and I made the antlers. I also linked the video that we made of our antics trying to get the shot. Didn't even get third place. The theme was holiday for December's contest.

I admit, not a superb photo or best quality but I thought for sure I would get points for originality haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3VH6SiZWp4

Happy viewing.

I love it !
I know how hard it must have been to get them to sit still at the same time.
You have a first place in my book. : )

 

[Juliaf3]

Usually it's such easy little things to do - a strategic crop that removes a distracting object from the background of improves the composition of the photo, a tiny bit of post-processing correction (tweak the contrast a little, reduce photo noise, etc.), or something like that. Or tips on how to take a better photo next time. You don't have to have a thousand dollar camera to take good photos, so don't let whatever camera you have intimidate you!

I didn't even know we could do post processing correction that's exciting! Learning something new everyday

 

[pigglett79]

Some people gave me a hard time about putting hats on chameleons. I understand there are those who believe they are to be seen and not touched, so they were more offended that I would put a hat on them. Although my boys are very friendly and didn't mind too much. Of course they were a little nervous, but I didn't feel it was abusive. In any case, It made for a good Christmas card so its all good.

 

[Juliaf3]

Pigglet that picture made me laugh chameleons with antlers hahaha

 

[fleetwoodchams]

Some people gave me a hard time about putting hats on chameleons. I understand there are those who believe they are to be seen and not touched, so they were more offended that I would put a hat on them. Although my boys are very friendly and didn't mind too much. Of course they were a little nervous, but I didn't feel it was abusive. In any case, It made for a good Christmas card so its all good.

No need to explain. I hold my chams all the time. Memphis my 5 month old begs to get out of his cage to be held.
I think your photo is creative. It was the holiday theme after all.

 

[Olimpia]

I truly believe many who enter would be happy with a medal even if they didn't get $50 bucks . Perhaps a buy one get something by the sponsors as another type of award for those not in 1st place. Always good for business and moral.

I don't understand, do you want everyone to get a medal just for entering? As the contest is currently set up the first place winner gets a gold medal and the $50 credit, but second and third also get medals. If I win I almost never win first, and I'm happy getting a silver or bronze medal. But what I wouldn't want to get is a participation medal just for entering, that's never a good system. And I have certainly lost more times than I've placed, but I still wouldn't want to get a medal just because. This may not be a photography forum but it's still a photo contest, you still have to compete and win with a quality photo. Which is important, because the monthly winners end up in a final vote for who ends up on the forum calendar. I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty happy with the photos on this year's calendar. I don't think anyone would purchase the calendar if the photos were mediocre.

And how do you guys think the winners feel when comments like these are made? "Oh, so and so wins a lot, it's just because they're popular" as if they don't deserve it. I don't think they feel very good about their own victory when the community makes a stink of it over and over, do you? To whatever extent popularity plays into it they certainly are NOT coasting along on dull, grainy iPhone photos either. The winning photos every month are high-quality, with proper focus, good color, good lighting, and interesting subject. So I don't think it's fair to multi-time winners to single them out and say they only ever win because they are "favorites," as if their photos don't have any quality to them.

Everyone is welcome to vent their frustrations with the contest but not at the cost of people that place more than once a year, I think.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

And how do you guys think the winners feel when comments like these are made? "Oh, so and so wins a lot, it's just because they're popular" as if they don't deserve it. I don't think they feel very good about their own victory when the community makes a stink of it over and over, do you? To whatever extent popularity plays into it they certainly are NOT coasting along on dull, grainy iPhone photos either. The winning photos every month are high-quality, with proper focus, good color, good lighting, and interesting subject. So I don't think it's fair to multi-time winners to single them out and say they only ever win because they are "favorites," as if their photos don't have any quality to them.

Where the heck did this come from.??
My suggestion was not to have everybody win or get something. That would be silly.
It was an idea on what to give to 2nd or 3rd places.
The English language can get twisted sooo easily. Our conversation was about our belief that many members really don't care as much about the prize money as much as the recognition.
I am sorry you misunderstood this.

 

[spottea]

I love your Xmas pic! I wish I had seen it at Xmastime. So cute!
I haven't entered any photos yet, but it's on my bucket list...

 

[fleetwoodchams]

I went back and took about a hour to read some of the past photo contest threads and those that suggested any kind of "participation medal" were shredded by other members.
However I want to suggest this idea again.
Why not have those that take the time and trouble to participate get something like a BOGO coupon or a discount coupon from the vendors. Sponsors will get more business and coupons always generate more traffic for a business.
I understand that there are limits on what a forum template can show so if that is too much then,
a few honorable mention awards wouldn't hurt morale either. There wouldn't have to be money involved because it seems like many members would appreciate the recognition.
Everyone thinks their chameleon is the best and of course why wouldn't they. But it does take effort to enter this contest and I truly don't think this is a matter of "sore losers" as some have wrongly suggested. Members want to be recognized that's all.

 

[Olimpia]

Where the heck did this come from?

From comments like these throughout this thread and other similar ones in the past:

...I do agree that it is more of a popularity contest, but that helpfulness and popularity isn't the same as a photo contest winner...

I agree but I knew a certain photo was submitted past the submission deadline. When I saw this and inquired how it got into the final cut, all my posts were deleted!
That photo won.
Makes you just say hummm

(You don't think it may have hurt the photographer's feelings implying that she cheated? Or won by other nefarious means? I think this comment was totally unnecessary, given what Trace and I had already explained the situation to you in the other thread and explained why the comments were going to be deleted.)

I've heard the gump about conspiracy but that not it, but there is favorites whether one wants to admit it our not.

All these popularity comments imply that photos are winning due to the photographer or the subject animal's popularity alone, and that's clearly not the case. If it were popularity alone, we would have month after month of well-liked members winning with grainy, off-focus iPhone photos. The winning photos stand on their own merit, I think. Perhaps when people are stuck between two great options their opinions about the photographer may make that final sway, but popularity is not solely responsible for why one person wins and one doesn't. (You also can't make the argument that the people who don't place are all greatly disliked or unpopular either, for example!)

So I think we can express opinions about how to make the contest better or vent frustrations, but not by implying that the winners are "favorites" coasting on popularity alone (or worse, cheating!) because it belittles their victories. You wouldn't want anyone saying the same thing about you if you finally win several contests, no?

 

[fleetwoodchams]

From comments like these throughout this thread and other similar ones in the past:

(You don't think it may have hurt the photographer's feelings implying that she cheated? Or won by other nefarious means? I think this comment was totally unnecessary, given what Trace and I had already explained the situation to you in the other thread and explained why the comments were going to be deleted.)

All these popularity comments imply that photos are winning due to the photographer or the subject animal's popularity alone, and that's clearly not the case. If it were popularity alone, we would have month after month of well-liked members winning with grainy, off-focus iPhone photos. The winning photos stand on their own merit, I think. Perhaps when people are stuck between two great options their opinions about the photographer may make that final sway, but popularity is not solely responsible for why one person wins and one doesn't. (You also can't make the argument that the people who don't place are all greatly disliked or unpopular either, for example!)

So I think we can express opinions about how to make the contest better or vent frustrations, but not by implying that the winners are "favorites" coasting on popularity alone (or worse, cheating!) because it belittles their victories. You wouldn't want anyone saying the same thing about you if you finally win several contests, no?

Quote from this post from Olympia -

Popularity does certainly play into it, fortunately or unfortunately, and at the end of the day this isn't a photography forum so people vote for lots of reasons that aren't necessarily relevant to the quality of the photo. It is what it is, so if people see a Parson's or a panther that they really love/respect/envy they'll vote for it, not necessarily because the photo itself is extraordinary.

I like this forum but I don't like when posts are blown out of proportion and made into an argument. I don't come here to argue!
Anyone that took the time to read this entire thread and other would know no one ever slighted anyone's photos nor said they cheated. I actually really like the person I think you are speaking about.
Not only that you yourself have said there is favorites/popularity in these contests
Read your own post from this thread above in red.
You have cut segments out of members posts and commented on them without the context they were posted in. I guess that is the nature of a forum. Brad and Trace have asked for suggestions to make this forum better. That is all we have done. If they are used or not is not our call but no one told us we can't make suggestions.
The fact remains that members seem to want to be recognized for entering the photo contest even if they don't get prizes or certificates.
We don't need you to help us with our photos but thanks for the offer. I am in marketing and I can take a nice photo on my own.
Please from now on keep the thread civil. We like each other and there is no need to bash members. I am sorry if your feeling were somehow hurt.

I looked back through ALL the past photo contest photos all the way back to 2005 and I have two comments.
All winners had nice photos
And - the level of photo quality has seemed to increase over the years.

 

[Olimpia]

My feelings aren't hurt, I have no qualms about the contest. I have always had fun entering and have never complained about losing, I just try again next month. And I have not contradicted myself, two years ago I said that, yes, popularity plays a part. And now I still don't disagree that popularity still plays a part, but it is not the SOLE reason why the winning photos are winning. But absolute statements like "the favorites win over and over again" or "It is a popularity contest" are not fair. Whether popularity affects 10%, 20%, or 80% of the vote, I don't know, but like you said, the winning photos are also of really great quality, so it's still the most beautiful photos that are winning. That's all I'm saying, if that makes sense.

I want to be careful here because I don't want to out the dear friends I am defending but I know that feelings do get hurt over time when certain winners are singled out for multiple victories every time a discussion like this comes up, as if they were doing something wrong. So yes, absolutely share suggestions! No one is saying we can't, we're an awesome community and there's probably lots of room for things to be even better. But everyone's feelings matter. That's all. So a comment like the "hummm" one you made felt unnecessarily accusatory, and I would have probably felt unfairly attacked if that were pointed at one of my entries.

That's ok if you don't want help, but I know that others do appreciate it. Not everyone has a background in photography or art, but I do so I'm happy to offer help people if they want it. I just helped someone a couple days ago with their entry for this month, and I'm excited to see how they do.

Perhaps the removing the account names from the entry is a good idea. Some chameleons or photography styles are really easy to recognize but perhaps it would make people feel better about everyone being on a more equal field. I'd be ok with that suggestion. But a participation [perk, whatever it would be] for everyone... eh, things like that end up backfiring and you lose the drive of competition.

 

[fleetwoodchams]

My feelings aren't hurt, I have no qualms about the contest. I have always had fun entering and have never complained about losing, I just try again next month. And I have not contradicted myself, two years ago I said that, yes, popularity plays a part. And now I still don't disagree that popularity still plays a part, but it is not the SOLE reason why the winning photos are winning. But absolute statements like "the favorites win over and over again" or "It is a popularity contest" are not fair. Whether popularity affects 10%, 20%, or 80% of the vote, I don't know, but like you said, the winning photos are also of really great quality, so it's still the most beautiful photos that are winning. That's all I'm saying, if that makes sense.

I want to be careful here because I don't want to out the dear friends I am defending but I know that feelings do get hurt over time when certain winners are singled out for multiple victories every time a discussion like this comes up, as if they were doing something wrong. So yes, absolutely share suggestions! No one is saying we can't, we're an awesome community and there's probably lots of room for things to be even better. But everyone's feelings matter. That's all. So a comment like the "hummm" one you made felt unnecessarily accusatory, and I would have probably felt unfairly attacked if that were pointed at one of my entries.

That's ok if you don't want help, but I know that others do appreciate it. Not everyone has a background in photography or art, but I do so I'm happy to offer help people if they want it. I just helped someone a couple days ago with their entry for this month, and I'm excited to see how they do.

Perhaps the removing the account names from the entry is a good idea. Some chameleons or photography styles are really easy to recognize but perhaps it would make people feel better about everyone being on a more equal field. I'd be ok with that suggestion. But a participation [perk, whatever it would be] for everyone... eh, things like that end up backfiring and you lose the drive of competition.

Thanks Olympia,

I agree completely.
I like the idea of removing the entrants name but people will still have favorites by breed, rarity, whether or not the photo was natural or staged etc, as you said yourself.

I do understand how some must feel however entering over and over and not getting any acclaim.
I want to stress I am not speaking about myself here. I haven't entered enough to really be a part of that.
The prize is a motivator but just like in life money is usually not the biggest , it is being appreciated and noticed. This is a known fact to employers and businesses worldwide. That's why people post their lives on sites like facebook.
I don't want to add more work to the admin team but maybe we can think of a way that give a tip of the hat to those that participate more than say 5 or even 10 times. Something like that. Or as I suggested earlier a coupon for runners up.
Again, I will offer my help if needed.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[Decadancin]

There is a place for recognition for all... the General Photography section. Just because you enter a contest doesn't mean that you deserve anything. You are actually facing the possibility that you get no votes at all. It can feel horrible, and make you not want to participate, or it can motivate you to be better. As in business, as you brought up, the most successful people are that way for a reason. There is an old saying about a successful person. They have failed many more times than someone less successful. They are willing to fail, because they know you learn more from it. Just like in sports, the good team that does not win will be motivated by it and learn what they need to do to get better.

Of course, it is fun to celebrate a victory, and everyone wants to do well, but when you water down the prize and make it so people who try get praise just for trying, it makes the actual prize less important. Its like giving every kid in little league a trophy. Nothing bothers me more than this about our society. Everyone does not deserve a prize just for showing up. It doesn't seem like the right message to send... "Hey little Billy and Suzie, you didn't play well as a team, and really don't have the ability to compete here, but your parents brought you to the field each week, and that should be enough! Here's your prize!!!"

As for the actual original picture that was in question in this thread, I can only imaging how hard it was to get the subjects to do what they were doing. I'm not in any way singling this out as little Billy or Suzie. And, I bet the more effort put into the shot, the harder it is not to do as well as you feel you should.

To all who are ever going to read this thread, please do not be afraid to fail! Its what makes us better! The only way to truly make the contest better is for more participation. If not entering photos, just vote for your favorite. That will make it an even better barometer for which pics are the best!

 

[chameeeleon]

I'm a little late to the party, but I run out of my room, fall down the stairs, and come panting over when I hear people talk about photography (or Harry Potter). When I vote, I vote based on:
1. The "feel" of the photo. I don't know exactly how to describe this, but other photographers/artists will (hopefully) get what I'm saying and maybe someone can put it into words for me. A photo without feeling is like "Well just another pic of Bob the cham." But a photo with feeling is like "Wow look at this photo of Bob the cham". A photo with feeling captures an emotion. And (in my opinion) capturing a moment or emotion is the whole thing of photography.
2. Quality. I get that not everyone has the money or the desire for a fancy camera, but I know that it is in fact possible to get a decent photo from a cellphone. But for the love of chameleons get a photo that is in focus. Please. I seriously cannot stand out of focus photos. Especially when it could have been a really great photo but it's just so blurry.
3. Theme. Every now and then you find the odd Christmas tree photo in the "Summer Days" photo contest. I slap my palm to my head and say "No. Just... no."

PS Yes it is midnight here, it's vacation, ok? (Tomorrow: Person- "I had a crazy night" Me- "Yeah me too I was up till 1am reading about reptiles" Person- "..." *slowly scoots chair away*) lol

 

[junglefries]

I might have tried twenty different times to upload photos for a contest. Always: upload failed. I gave up. No one liked high school, too trumatic.

 

[junglefries]

I just finished reading all the posts. Next contest, I will vote for you Olimpia. Take a pic of a blank wall, I don't care. Better yet, take a pic of a previous winning pic. For all you do, you got a vote from me.