Horrible invasion of pythons in florida? or not?

[fluxlizard]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/24/us-usa-pythons-everglades-idUSTRE81N24120120224

Thought this was relevant to us as chameleon keepers in light of all the legislation banning the larger snakes nationwide in the name of protecting the everglades.

Chameleons could conceivably suffer similar legislative restriction at some point in the future what with the colonies of veileds and oustalets down there and in California.

 

[absolutbill]

To be honest I've lived down here for 10 years and have seen a grand total of 1 python. Now I don't go cruising around the Everglades, but I have read several articles on the subject, and while they all say the population is growing, no one seems able to prove it. Also, there was a great article in Playboy (don't judge, my Dad had it and showed me the article), about the topic, and they said that the only way to "find" the pythons was to cruise up and down the dirt roads in the area and look for them sunning themselves. Personally I believe it's a bunch of hype. As for the decreasing numbers of raccoons and possums, well look at the roadsides down here - they are ALWAYS being hit by cars. Plus there is a staggering number of other predators not to mention the hydrology of the area also affecting the decreasing populations. I agree that this is probably just a first step against the veileds, however I also think that Joe Public is far more afraid of a 16' python than a cute chameleon. At least I hope so. Just my opinion

Michelle

 

[tkilgour]

Ohio is trying to crack down on exotic pet owners now too! Hope they don't try to make me get rid of my exotic pets, because it will not happen.

 

[Olimpia]

I was arguing this in an ecology class that was making the point that there are no raccoons left in that area and it's all the fault of the pythons. It was a class discussion on a paper about the everglades ecology and I remember my professor getting a little pissy with me because I kept saying that the science behind these python studies are really vague and that they wouldn't have made it out well after those freak winters we had. I remember the iguanas were dropping out of the trees like flies from the cold, poor things. Now I am tempted to email him this article, see if I get those participation points back lol

At any rate, I don't even keep big snakes, but I sign all the petitions against banning them that I can. Because it really is just a matter of time before it trickles into other reptiles and then lots of exotics in general.

 

[chamguy]

I remember reading a bill that was proposed years ago ( its dead now) that would out law ALL non-native, non-benificial species in the USA. This would include many birds, most reptiles, fish, cats, dogs, ect. Onlything we would have left would be a few breeds of dogs, and livestock. I remember thinking how rediculous this was,...but I guess the everglade fiasco ( which is all hype) is just another reason on their side. Also since they can't outlaw everything they are trying with smaller bills directed at certian species.

 

[Olimpia]

Yea, absolutely. I think that bill saw an overwhelming amount of fight from the bird-keeping community, if I'm not mistaken. So they're finding it easier to snake their way in (no pun intended) through the reptiles first, because as a general rule not a lot of people like them. Even people who don't keep birds tend to like birds, or hamsters, or fish. But not a lot of people like reptiles.

 

[ChameleonRave]

Everyone move to SD. PETA and HSUS just tried to corrupt the state with their games, and SoDak just pushed them away! c:

 

[fluxlizard]

Sounds like a plan. Kind of cold there though

The problem is- the big snake ban is federal, not state.
So with this now as a precedent, what your state decides won't matter...

 

[ChameleonRave]

Sounds like a plan. Kind of cold there though

The problem is- the big snake ban is federal, not state.
So with this now as a precedent, what your state decides won't matter...

I wasn't referring to the ban on snakes that was federal. Other reptiles basically through PETA and HSUS when they try to ban animals. They won't allow them to pass anything in the state of South Dakota.

 

[fluxlizard]

Sounds like a nice place to live- and they have reptile gardens!

But the problem is, the implications of this precedent allow these types of groups to push an agenda on your state by simply going over their head and doing it nationally, which will force your state to comply anyway.

Think about it- only the large constrictors are banned, and only 1 of those is established in the everglades. Very nearly every snake in the trade could establish in the wrong location- nearly any tropical or subtropical species could establish in Florida for example.

So why didn't they ban all snakes at this time?- that would be just as logical as the other giants they are banning as they have not yet established either. The premise is the fear that they could and then they would be invasive and/or alien. Well, going by that logic, nearly everything in the reptile hobby is a target.

They are just choosing the ones that are easy to sensationalize for now.

The rest will come later. There are many lizard species where they do not belong in Florida - a couple species of iguana, a few species of anole, a few species of chameleon, monitor lizards, a couple species of basilisk- and that's just off the top of my head.

Using the premise established by the banning of these pythons, it is probably only a matter of time before they start pointing at these other species and passing laws to ban them nationally as well. And just like the giant constrictors, when the time comes, they won't just ban veileds or oustalets, the'll say "OMG- these other chameleons are a threat as well!"

At that time it wont' matter what state we live in because the premise is now established of national control, rather than state.

 

[ChameleonRave]

Sounds like a nice place to live- and they have reptile gardens!

But the problem is, the implications of this precedent allow these types of groups to push an agenda on your state by simply going over their head and doing it nationally, which will force your state to comply anyway.

Think about it- only the large constrictors are banned, and only 1 of those is established in the everglades. Very nearly every snake in the trade could establish in the wrong location- nearly any tropical or subtropical species could establish in Florida for example.

So why didn't they ban all snakes at this time?- that would be just as logical as the other giants they are banning as they have not yet established either. The premise is the fear that they could and then they would be invasive and/or alien. Well, going by that logic, nearly everything in the reptile hobby is a target.

They are just choosing the ones that are easy to sensationalize for now.

The rest will come later. There are many lizard species where they do not belong in Florida - a couple species of iguana, a few species of anole, a few species of chameleon, monitor lizards, a couple species of basilisk- and that's just off the top of my head.

Using the premise established by the banning of these pythons, it is probably only a matter of time before they start pointing at these other species and passing laws to ban them nationally as well. And just like the giant constrictors, when the time comes, they won't just ban veileds or oustalets, the'll say "OMG- these other chameleons are a threat as well!"

At that time it wont' matter what state we live in because the premise is now established of national control, rather than state.

It's a horrible place to live. Reptile Gardens aren't that fun.

 

[fluxlizard]

LOL

I visited reptile gardens 2 summers ago.

Was OK if you like venomous snakes.

Was kind of ignorant if you like lizards or tortoises.

Was beautiful country though. But cold even in summer compared to here in the east. I wondered if they hauled all those big tortoises indoors every night...

 

[DekuScrub]

has anyone else ever seen a snake and thought it looked delicious? i have, we should just start collecting and eatting them.

you know what else makes me salivate? bunnies. i know theyre so cute but for some reason they just look so tasty

 

[fluxlizard]

LOL bunnies do that to me too.

Shhh don't tell anyone.



I've never tasted one, but I have eaten snake (and alligator and snapping turtle which the local mountain folk still eat sometimes (I knew a lady when I was a teenager with a pond and she fixed snapping turtle and frog legs with animals from her pond- she was old but still went frog gigging in the middle of the night).

When I was young I went through a phase where I started empathizing with my lizards a little too much and tried mealworms, crickets, and a huge grasshopper 1x as well. Those days are gone.

 

[DekuScrub]

LOL bunnies do that to me too.

Shhh don't tell anyone.



I've never tasted one, but I have eaten snake (and alligator and snapping turtle which the local mountain folk still eat sometimes (I knew a lady when I was a teenager with a pond and she fixed snapping turtle and frog legs with animals from her pond- she was old but still went frog gigging in the middle of the night).

When I was young I went through a phase where I started empathizing with my lizards a little too much and tried mealworms, crickets, and a huge grasshopper 1x as well. Those days are gone.

lol its really bad. the look of bunnies is just so appetizing.

and snakes! theyre like something between fish and fowl. which sounds utterly amazing, at least texturally. i wanna fry some up and get me a nice bucket of honey mustard and go to town. maybe some snake pot pie.

ive had snapper (poor turtles, they arent delicious looking just cute) but i think i lost the actual flavor of the thing in the stew.

 

[ChameleonRave]

LOL

I visited reptile gardens 2 summers ago.

Was OK if you like venomous snakes.

Was kind of ignorant if you like lizards or tortoises.

Was beautiful country though. But cold even in summer compared to here in the east. I wondered if they hauled all those big tortoises indoors every night...

You deserve to be beaten for saying that... There is NOTHING beautiful about South Dakota. We still have one of the smallest populations in the country. We still haven't gained back the population that we lost during the great depression! D: Take it back.

 

[Davonat]

You deserve to be beaten for saying that... There is NOTHING beautiful about South Dakota. We still have one of the smallest populations in the country. We still haven't gained back the population that we lost during the great depression! D: Take it back.

The area around Chamberlain is nice!... We fly our RC sailplanes from the huge slopes above the Missouri River Valley. Very nice indeed! The rest looks kinda barron though... I can vouch for 1 thing ..... They have more Pheasants than flys in a barn yard!!!! Those suckers are EVERYWHERE!!!

 

[Deb]

Typical, they go after snakes while the biggest culprit of all is rarely pointed out for its destruction to wildlife. Snakes will kill once a week or so in order to eat. Cats, on the other hand, will kill indiscriminately every single night just for the fun of it. But suggest any laws restricting cats and you'll have half the world come down on you.

I don't have anything against cats, I've had a few in my time, and they can be very sweet and entertaining and loving creatures. But they are also monstrous murderers. For people who have a deep empathy with all animals, cats are definitely off the list as pets.

There should be a federal law requiring all domestic cats to wear bells on their collars.

And they should leave the snakes of Florida alone until they use some real science to prove a problem.

 

[DekuScrub]

Typical, they go after snakes while the biggest culprit of all is rarely pointed out for its destruction to wildlife. Snakes will kill once a week or so in order to eat. Cats, on the other hand, will kill indiscriminately every single night just for the fun of it. But suggest any laws restricting cats and you'll have half the world come down on you.

I don't have anything against cats, I've had a few in my time, and they can be very sweet and entertaining and loving creatures. But they are also monstrous murderers. For people who have a deep empathy with all animals, cats are definitely off the list as pets.

There should be a federal law requiring all domestic cats to wear bells on their collars.

And they should leave the snakes of Florida alone until they use some real science to prove a problem.

i cant agree, more. coming upon a nest of baby bunnies that have been skinned alive and left to die by a cat is pretty traumatizing when your young.

i dont blame the cats its their nature, i blame people that let theirs outdoors. we had a neighbor down the street when i was younger that had a problem with letting their cats outside and not having them neutered.

we developed a feral population and a woman who is a vet tech a block away began feeding them out of pitty.

since then a few developments have gone in and a lot of foxes have been displaced, so that and the winters have taken care of that.

i understand if you have a farm, or a rodent problem that you would keep a cat outdoors.

humans are invasive enough by themselves adding a cat to the equation just makes it that much worse.