Help with a deremensis & jackson

[dendrodiva]

Hello!

This is my first post and I am now the owner of 2 Chameleons by default. I volunteer with a dog rescue group and we were having an adoption event, when someone came in with 2 chameleons to the LPS. The person claimed that they could no longer keep them, and wanted the LPS to take them. The LPS, was not could not take them. The owner of the chameleons said she would take them to the local shelter. Being that I interact with this local shelter frequently, as we rescue quite a few dogs from there, I knew they were not equipped to handle this type of exotic.

I have several reptiles & amphibians at home, so I am not completely new to taking care of more "complex" animals, but any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. They aren't the healthiest looking at the moment, which is why I suspect the owner was getting rid of them. I will be running them to my local vet for a check up tomorrow (he does exotics).

As for the time being, I have an exo 36X18X18 and a repti-fogger, or I could add some additional mister's from my frog tanks, if you guys think that would be better. Thanks in advance!

 

[Lathis]

First off, welcome to the Forum and the wonderful world of chameleons! You're really stepping off into the deep end But to start off with two great species like a Jax and a Deremensis is amazing.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

Here is a wealth of information that you may find helpful. There is not a care sheet for the Deremensis specifically, but I would guess their care is similar to a Jacksons's. Hopefully someone experienced with that species will jump in. (Edit: Laurie here on CF has experience with Deremenses. You might PM her directly if she doesn't see this thread.)

A vet visit right off is a great idea - if they were at the point of surrendering the chams, they may not have been taking very good care of the poor things.

Are they being kept together? One of your first priorities would be to get them set up in separate cages.

Let us know how we can help you in any way. This is a great forum full of really knowledgeable people. Don't be shy about asking questions and do lots of searching.

Photos???

 

[kinyonga]

Are they males?

Just some info to get you started...
It's recommended that you dust at most feedings with a phosphorous - free calcium powder to make up for the usually poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous found in most feeder insects.

It's also recommended that you dust twice a month with a phosphorous - free calcium D3 powder to ensure that it gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB.

It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A cannot build up in the system and lead to health issues like prEformed sources can and this leaves it up to you to decide whether or not to provide a prEformed source.

It's important in addition to this to provide the appropriate temperatures to aid in proper digestion and thus indirectly in the nutrient absorption.

It's important to feed / gutload the insects such as crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms properly with a wide assortment of greens such as collards, escarole, endive, dandelion greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet red pepper, squash, zucchini, sweet potato, etc.

Calcium, vitamin A, vitamin D3 and phosphorous are all important players in bone health and other things in the system and need to be in balance.

Hope his helps!

 

[rshewfel]

I have have about 2 years experience with deremensis. I keep them pretty close to the way a jacksons is kept with a few exceptions. First of all, they really do not like the heat. A couple times when my room got to around 85 this summer, I found one of my females on the bottom of her cage, in obvious discomfort. I try to keep them between 70-75 during the day with a night time drop of at least 10-15 degrees. I have let mine get to a low of around 40 with no problems. Obviously if they are kept indoors this is not an option. I personally do not even offer them a basking spot any more because I never witnessed them basking. They are kept under a high output fixture with plenty of heat if they get close enough, but they never do.
The other major difference. They eat very little. I hand feed them about 4-5 days a week, but typically only one item. For example, Monday- 1 adult dubia, Wednesday- 2" hornworm, Thursday 2 adult crickets, Saturday- another adult dubia, and them maybe a small treat on Sunday. While my females were gravid I offered them a bit more. In the last year my males both went from around 55grams to over 90 grams eating this little. They also quit eating entirely for about a month during this time also.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

 

[dendrodiva]

First and foremost THANK YOU, to all of you who commented. I have spent the last few hours pouring over the info on the site. I somehow missed the care resources link, so a big shout out to Lathis for posting that link!

They are both females. I will make sure they go into separate cages. For the time being I only have one empty tank. I was just lucky it was a decent sized one. Tomorrow I will go out and get a non-glass, screen-style, cage for each of these ladies.

They seem very underweight and I am not sure if they might have worms. Is that possible? Sorry, I am using my dog/frog background here and that is my usual go to.

Another question I have is in regards to the humidity. I couldn't find a RH% recommendation. Most of the info available, was in regards to misting and for us frog-people, we treat water and humidity as two separate issues. Meaning water/misting is not treated the same as humidity. I hope what I am asking makes sense.

Also, from what I read it sound like these guys don't like being handled much. Is that correct? For some reason, I remember seeing people out with their Cham's quite often in public at reptile shows, etc. Is this just kind of a big no-no?

I will try to get photos of them tomorrow. For now, I didn't want to bother them as they have already had a traumatic and stressful day. Poor things.

 

[Carlton]

They are both females. I will make sure they go into separate cages. For the time being I only have one empty tank. I was just lucky it was a decent sized one. Tomorrow I will go out and get a non-glass, screen-style, cage for each of these ladies.

Wow, to end up with a female deremensis is unusual! I agree with the previous post about deremensis. Mine never basked, were quite inactive (the epitome of the lurk and wait predator), ate little, avoided the brighter areas of the cage, and were quite secretive. They would be from the dense understory of cool wet forests so that all makes sense. You'll notice her skin is intensely sensitive to changes in light, and her color may shift constantly...almost like clouds moving across the sky. They are very interesting reclusive creatures. A screen cage will need a lot of modification to stay humid, so be prepared to add sheet plastic to the sides, provide dense foliage cover, and keep her cooler even than the jax. Be very sparing with supplements that include fat soluable vitamins. Actually you are lucky the species were these two, as the issues with their setups are similar. The jax a bit warmer and brighter.


They seem very underweight and I am not sure if they might have worms. Is that possible? Sorry, I am using my dog/frog background here and that is my usual go to.

Yes, chams can have intestinal parasites. Most all can be detected with a fecal exam from a competent vet.


Another question I have is in regards to the humidity. I couldn't find a RH% recommendation. Most of the info available, was in regards to misting and for us frog-people, we treat water and humidity as two separate issues. Meaning water/misting is not treated the same as humidity. I hope what I am asking makes sense.

It does make sense. You are actually a great person to take these species on, as you'll start off with a good understanding of RH and how to achieve it. What will be different is providing some air exchange in addition to higher RH. Chams are sensitive to air quality and will not want a completely stable high RH. If you provide denser live foliage, frequent fogging (to stabilize the RH between misting that is intended to provide drinking water in the form of droplets on leaves), and some cover for the cage screen sides, it will work. Trial and error.


Also, from what I read it sound like these guys don't like being handled much. Is that correct? For some reason, I remember seeing people out with their Cham's quite often in public at reptile shows, etc. Is this just kind of a big no-no?

Right. Chams are not social beings, though it varies a lot by individual. They tolerate some handling, but I would never subject any cham to shoulder rides in public. As you get to know your girls you'll sense how much interaction they tolerate. The first thing is to get them stabilized and healthy. Then you'll be able to learn their color language and judge what upsets or stresses them and how tolerant they will be to handling.


I will try to get photos of them tomorrow. For now, I didn't want to bother them as they have already had a traumatic and stressful day. Poor things.

 

[dendrodiva]

Hi guys, Just wanted to provide you with a quick update. Took the 2 girls in to the Vet. today and the Vet. decided to keep them as their personal pets. Which is fantastic news! They already had another at home, that someone else brought in that they also no longer wanted. What is with people (rhetorical)? I figure they can't have better care than being in a home with a professional. Thank you for all your help!