Help! Vieled Cham not eating after laying and very weak

[JACKG]

Rosie is walking about but still hasn't eaten today. We have her booked in at the vets later today to get her checked out fingers crossed she's going to be ok.

We put the lights on for 12 hours a day and don't leave any lights on during the night.

Thanks for all your help and I'll let you know how we got on later.

 

[Peachypink]

Rosie is walking about but still hasn't eaten today. We have her booked in at the vets later today to get her checked out fingers crossed she's going to be ok.

We put the lights on for 12 hours a day and don't leave any lights on during the night.

Thanks for all your help and I'll let you know how we got on later.

Best of luck with the vet visit today!

 

[Lizzie The Chameleon]

how did it go??

 

[Andee]

I am hoping all goes well with you and your little one, keeping my fingers crossed, hoping for an update soon <3

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

I also hope all goes well with Rosie. Keep us posted k?

 

[JACKG]

Hi,
Rosie is having her 2nd night at the Vets Hospital..

He said she was dehydrated and weak but needs to lay the eggs so has given her something to induce - think he said can take 12 hours so they must have only gave her this today.

So far she hasn't laid or eaten but they are given her stuff to compensate and he basically said it was a case of being patient and hoping for the best.

He mentioned surgery is sometimes an option depending on how physically strong the chameleon (and clearly Rosie doesn't appear to be given her hunger strike). To be honest that makes me nervous both from a financial and outcome point of view.. both of which have little knowledge of.

We are obviously concerned for her welfare and also what the vet bill will be.

Will know more tomorrow so fingers crossed!

 

[Rapunzel's Pascal]

Prayers for your Rosie and I hope she lays and doesn't have to go to surgery.

 

[JACKG]

Thought I'd give you guys an update - sadly It's not the outcome we were hoping for.

Rosie stayed at the vets for 2 nights and they tried the hormones to induce however she did not lay. She also still has not eaten.

She has taken the medication and they said she was active but the vet suggested we take her home as we may as well give her the medicine at home. He said Its unwise to operate due to the risk of complications. He suggested take her home and see how she goes and maybe come back up a few days to try again?

When we picked her up she looked worse to me (darker color and eyes sunk in). The nurse showed us how to administer the medicine but contradicted the vet by saying its unlikely she will lay and we could book an appointment if we are considering surgery?

Personally I was optimistic before going to the vets now I don't think she is going to make it

 

[jajeanpierre]

@JACKG I'm sorry this is happening. If the Oxytocin didn't work--and it often doesn't--and she isn't laying her eggs, she will die.

I don't understand why vets won't just say that it is best to euthanize. Surgery is not an option for most people but prolonging her death is not doing her any favor.

When eggs are retained, inflammation sets up and fibrin attaches the eggs to the oviduct and they can't lay. The surgery, even if you were contemplating it, is very tricky and requires quite a bit of skill. She is declining so is not a good candidate for surgery.

Do her a favor and help her out.

I'm sorry.

 

[Andee]

I am so sorry. I agree with @jajeanpierre ... there are certain crazy moments during rehabilitations and rescues where I feel like giving up and the chameleon suddenly does a turn around. Rosie I do not think will do that. Oxytocin is not only hard on their systems, but is often a last ditch effort if surgery is too risky. I would think surgery is dangerous for her and the problem with chameleons (where I often say to a lot of other animals that at least let them die with a chance on the table, they will die anyways without it) but with chameleons they could pull out of the surgery and just go down hill a few months after because their systems not only do bad with surgeries in general, even when healthy, but also because reptile surgeries are no small feat. I would put her down. And I don't often say that, but there are times when there is literally nothing you can do, and an eggbound female has little chance.

 

[JACKG]

I too am a little confused and obviously distressing for all.

The vet has given us quite a bit of medication to administer over the next few days and we did it for the first time last night. Personally I didn't enjoy it as we haven't handled Rosie a great deal so to handle her and give her medicine which she doesn't want to take doesn't sit comfortably with me if she is definitely not gonna make it - seems pointless and just adds to the stress.

If it's the case she won't make it then why the vet has not proposing to put her to sleep?

I think we have to accept that we could improved some elements of her husbandry however I remain convinced that if we would have put a the 2nd laying bin in first she would have laid.

I really don't know why she wouldn't go in the first bin we put in but the 2nd bin she laid immediately.

Thinking about it she didn't eat for at least a week before this and not since after laying up the 2nd bin so is its understandable she is so weak.

We will be contacting the vet as still have some questions and there was a lot to take in having to listen to how to administer the medicine whilst dealing with how she looked when we picked her back up from the vets.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I too am a little confused and obviously distressing for all.

The vet has given us quite a bit of medication to administer over the next few days and we did it for the first time last night. Personally I didn't enjoy it as we haven't handled Rosie a great deal so to handle her and give her medicine which she doesn't want to take doesn't sit comfortably with me if she is definitely not gonna make it - seems pointless and just adds to the stress.

If it's the case she won't make it then why the vet has not proposing to put her to sleep?

I think we have to accept that we could improved some elements of her husbandry however I remain convinced that if we would have put a the 2nd laying bin in first she would have laid.

I really don't know why she wouldn't go in the first bin we put in but the 2nd bin she laid immediately.

Thinking about it she didn't eat for at least a week before this and not since after laying up the 2nd bin so is its understandable she is so weak.

We will be contacting the vet as still have some questions and there was a lot to take in having to listen to how to administer the medicine whilst dealing with how she looked when we picked her back up from the vets.

What medication did the vet give you?

Sometimes vets just can't make that recommendation for their own personal reasons. They are pet vets and do everything they can to prolong a pet's life. Sometimes vets don't know what they are dealing with and would rather not make that kind of decision with no experience. I sometimes think they just want to milk their clients for all the money they can get. I have racehorses. My racehorse vets never suggest I continue on. They are quick to suggest euthanasia. Farm vets and racehorse vets have some common sense to them that pet vets seem to have lost.

 

[jajeanpierre]

One other thing @JACKG is that female egg layers usually decline and die during/after laying eggs. In the wild most die after one or two clutches. It is not "normal" or "natural" for females to lay a lot of clutches the way they do in captivity.

I have a wonderful producer that is likely at that point now. She was old at import (gravid) more than two years ago. Normally, she pops down to the bottom of her cage, lays her eggs and comes up as if nothing has happened. I knew something was off before her last clutch. She was obviously distressed and uncomfortable for a week or so before laying. I gave her vet-prescribed calcium just to be sure her blood calcium levels were up since laying depletes them and they can get into laying trouble just because their blood serum calcium levels are low. She took a long time to lay and a long time to cover up the eggs and even start to go up. I supported her with fluids and liquid calcium and silk worms for a little nutrition although she really didn't need extra food as she went into labor in fabulous condition. She was uncomfortable for days. I contacted a couple of experienced breeders and both said this was probably the end of the road for her. She was like yours--weak and very uncomfortable for many days but she came around. I spent a lot of time agonizing over her and finally decided to euthanize her because I would not put her through another clutch only to die suffering because that's what is going to happen. The vet talked me out of it and I think I am going to be really really angry at myself for not euthanizing her because I suspect she is going to have a horrific next clutch and I'll do everything to keep her alive to get those eggs because she is carrying a clutch from a wild caught male that has only bred her. And I'll hate myself when I do it.

My vet said that he didn't think she needed to be euthanized yet because he could tell she was a special animal to me. He said if I changed my mind, he would not question my decision. I hate myself already for not euthanizing but I hate doing it and he's right, she is incredibly special to me. And he's also right, she didn't need to be euthanized that day. But I wanted to euthanize her when she was feeling good, not in agony from a massive pelvic infection or in the throes of labor when she is egg bound. The insides of older egg laying females--chickens or chameleons--is really nasty. You have no idea.

My wonderful female looks pretty good but her colors have drastically paled since she laid that last clutch. Her dark ruby red nails are also pale. Those are not good signs and I really really regret not euthanizing her when I was in a couple of weeks ago.

I wanted to share this with you to let you know I truly do understand what you are going through and give you some insight into the whole female reproductive issue. I think your female will not give you a choice they way mine is because she will continue to decline.

I'm really sorry you are going through this.

 

[Andee]

I think there is a time where you just make a decision for the vet and say this is what I want and I will not leave until it is done. Because honestly your female @JACKG is not going to make it. I am hoping she does, every single part of me is hoping, but I am well aware it is probably hollow hope, the issue is... after this if she makes it and she gets to a healthy point I would be saving up a spay. She can't survive another lay in my opinion where she is.