HELP / INPUT needed from all forum members

Alozz25

Member
Dear All,

The question has raised many times, about our chameleons eating plants during caption. While they nearly don´t eat them in the wild. With this experiment we´ll try to collect some data and put it in a nice data sheet, to see if we can find a correlational between several parameters about plant eating in caption. Because not every chameleon seems to be eating their plants in the enclosure and as myself, I also noticed a change in behaviour between being a voracious plant eater to not touching any vegetation any more.

If everyone would be so kind to follow the sheet with 12 questions and line-up your answer by just following up the numbers of questions and give this answer in a number sequel i.e. 122422213213

I`ll collect all the data and put in a Excel sheet and lets see what it will bring us. And please be honest with question 9, this is what I think one really imported one!

@Brad please help if you got a better idea how to get data.

Already thanks in advanced 👏

View attachment 297358
121421112221
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
You said..."I true believe in it, I fog the complete tree she sleeps in, therefore she sleeps in a cloud of fog from midnight till the lights go on. And since I´ve been doing this she stop for 85% with eating plants, last 15% was for the larger enclosure with massive foliage"...interesting.

I said..."Does it make sense that they would need to eat so many leaves only when gravid to be used as fiber?"... You said. "That I don´t know, she´s now receptive for the first time, maybe in a couple weeks I´ve noticed the same"....time will tell.

@Klyde O'Scope said..."my bearded dragon, who has never drunk a drop of water in his entire life, excretes a veritable pool of water along with his excreta—every single time"...but does your dragon eat mostly vegetation?
I wonder if they lack the loop of Henle like chameleons do?
 
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CasqueAbove

Chameleon Enthusiast
I will answer this but it will have to come back to it. Also I notice you don't have a slot for age or plant types. I have some started plant munching at 3 months. I have also noticed that some plants are preferred and some are ignored depending on type of plant. As an example I have never seen a palm type plant get munched where as I can even keep Hibiscus as both male and female will just sit and eat.
 

CasqueAbove

Chameleon Enthusiast
You said..."I true believe in it, I fog the complete tree she sleeps in, therefore she sleeps in a cloud of fog from midnight till the lights go on. And since I´ve been doing this she stop for 85% with eating plants, last 15% was for the larger enclosure with massive foliage"...interesting.

I said..."Does it make sense that they would need to eat so many leaves only when gravid to be used as fiber?"... You said. "That I don´t know, she´s now receptive for the first time, maybe in a couple weeks I´ve noticed the same"....time will tell.

@Klyde O'Scope said..."my bearded dragon, who has never drunk a drop of water in his entire life, excretes a veritable pool of water along with his excreta—every single time"...but does your dragon eat mostly vegetation?
I wonder if they lack the loop of Henle like chameleons do?
Don't get me started on the poor beardies. I think they are more misunderstood that chameleons they are just a lot tougher. I see soo much that doesn't add up or is not properly explained. I can't find any two people to agree on diet or nutrition. The heat thing does not add up either. So many sheets say as high as 105f but leave off the importance of the cool side. In the wild when temp go much above 100f they start to look for shelter. They also spend time in trees when very hot to keep cooler. I will look it up but there is documentation of a male staying on one branch 30ft up for 3 weeks during a hot spell. (my numbers may be off, but the principal remains).
OK sorry off track. No good beardie forums like this.
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
@Klyde O'Scope said..."my bearded dragon, who has never drunk a drop of water in his entire life, excretes a veritable pool of water along with his excreta—every single time"...but does your dragon eat mostly vegetation?
I wonder if they lack the loop of Henle like chameleons do?
For all intents & purposes, despite being offered greens/veggies daily, he was strictly insectivore the entire first year. He got 100% of his moisture from dubias, superworms, BSFL, & mealworms. Only after brumating has he shown any interest in vegetation—including the plants in his enclosure. Now he eats a few greens, but 25% or less of his diet. Same amount of water in his movements before & after brumation.

The kidneys of reptiles do not have loops of Henle and so they are unable to produce concentrated urine
https://vetsci.wordpress.com/tag/loop-of-henle/
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
From the site you gave the link to @Klyde O'Scope
"The kidneys of reptiles do not have loops of Henle and so they are unable to produce concentrated urine"...this then makes sense for dragons that they excrete a lot of water...but they have to then be getting it from somewhere.

Chameleons don't usually have a really wet "discharge" in my experience, so it might be that they don't need much water after all....but then when some of them drink a lot in captivity why don't I see a lot of fluid then?
 

Sonny13

Avid Member
You said..."I true believe in it, I fog the complete tree she sleeps in, therefore she sleeps in a cloud of fog from midnight till the lights go on. And since I´ve been doing this she stop for 85% with eating plants, last 15% was for the larger enclosure with massive foliage"...interesting.
That’s how got interested in this subject and how I determined the 12 questions.
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
From the site you gave the link to @Klyde O'Scope
"The kidneys of reptiles do not have loops of Henle and so they are unable to produce concentrated urine"...this then makes sense for dragons that they excrete a lot of water...but they have to then be getting it from somewhere.

Chameleons don't usually have a really wet "discharge" in my experience, so it might be that they don't need much water after all....but then when some of them drink a lot in captivity why don't I see a lot of fluid then?
That's what I was wondering about! Stinkeye got his water solely from his num-nums:

Feeder Insect Moisture Content (rounded down)
Dubias_______65%
BSFL_________60%
Superworms_55%
Mealworms__60%
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1033/5251/files/feeder_insect_nutrition_chart.jpg?v=1489540062

...and still had generous surplus. "He Who Has Not Been Named" eats the same diet (plus crickets @ 75%), drinks droplets off the leaves, and absorbs through his skin(?) with no surplus.
Where's it going? He sure isn't sweating it out! :LOL:
 

CasqueAbove

Chameleon Enthusiast
That's what I was wondering about! Stinkeye got his water solely from his num-nums:

Feeder Insect Moisture Content (rounded down)
Dubias_______65%
BSFL_________60%
Superworms_55%
Mealworms__60%
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1033/5251/files/feeder_insect_nutrition_chart.jpg?v=1489540062

...and still had generous surplus. "He Who Has Not Been Named" eats the same diet (plus crickets @ 75%), drinks droplets off the leaves, and absorbs through his skin(?) with no surplus.
Where's it going? He sure isn't sweating it out! :LOL:
How often are you feeding insects ? I kind of go by the Australia Zoo with 2 to 3 days feed with vegies, one day insects, and they have one dat pinky mice, but I do not do that part. But he only gets bugs 1 day a week.
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
How often are you feeding insects ? I kind of go by the Australia Zoo with 2 to 3 days feed with vegies, one day insects, and they have one dat pinky mice, but I do not do that part. But he only gets bugs 1 day a week.
:confused: 🤷‍♂️ What's that got to do with what the chameleons are doing with all the moisture they take in?
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
Nothing I am off topic asking about feeding beardies lol
Oh. He doesn't get num-nums every day anymore. He gets greens & veggies, and if/when he eats those, he gets a few num-nums. His weight is steady, and all his fat pads are flat, so I'm not concerned about it. Neither is his vet. He's a little 💩.

1617307292291.png
 

CasqueAbove

Chameleon Enthusiast
1 1 1 4 2 1 2 1 3 3 1 1
1 2 1 4 2 1 2 1 3 3 1 1
1 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1
1 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1
1 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1
1 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1
1 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1
1 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1

Alright there you go. I think this is a great exercise. I don't think it will say much about plant munching. But it is a great start. Working with data can get complicated, this could lead you to more specific questions that you need or eliminate ones you don't. This kind of analysis that interests me. If we could keep a database filled with this type of information, but even more granular we would start to see patterns emerge. It is hard to say what they would show but would be interesting.
 
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