Help. Can chams react badly to antibiotics?

[Lindsey]

Heres my thread about Archie
https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-symptoms-old-age-chameleons-33212/

So yesterday, when I took him to the vet, he still moved around his cage (albeit more slowly than usual with his feet as they are) and he ate (normal amount of daily food, about 6 superworms) and he hissed and opened his mouth at me when I went in the tank.

He travelled to the vet, got an x-ray, had samples aspirated from the bumps on his forefeet, and was started on antibiotics.

When he got home from the vet, he seemed pretty pissed off, (understandably) and didn't move much after I gave him his Baytril.

I just got home from the university and he was on his branch with his head resting on it, and he didn't fight back when I went in, and didn't eat, and didn't open his mouth to hiss at me (I had to prod him to open his mouth to give him the baytril).

I really freaked out. yesterday he wasn't like this! Could the stress of going to the vet make his that much worse? could he be allergic to the antibiotic or something? (he has had baytril before for his eye infection two summers ago) could the x-ray do this to him? What could cause him to go downhill so fast just overnight?

hes on 0.2 cc batril daily until the labs come back in a week. Then the prescription may change.

I need some advice. I really hope its reassuring advice...

 

[Syn]

Antibiotics tend to dehydrate chameleons easily. Stress doesn't help, either. Have you called your vet and told him about this yet?

 

[Lindsey]

Antibiotics tend to dehydrate chameleons easily. Stress doesn't help, either. Have you called your vet and told him about this yet?

I misted him gratuitously, and made sure lots of the spray went in his mouth after I got him to open it (but not directly squirting the inside of his mouth with the sprayer).

I will make sure he is misted more often than usual though for sure.

I called, but they close early on fridays. I left a detailed message, and if I don't get a call back early tomorrow I'm going to call again.

 

[Lindsey]

So, he all of a sudden looks fine again...
he sat up and grabbed the branches with ALL of his feet and chilled like that for a while.

Then the lights turned off and now he's falling asleep, like normal.

This is so stressful! my nerves are all shot! grrr

trying to study for final exams is also not helping...

 

[Syn]

Probably was just tired from a stressful couple days. Let him rest and hope for the best!

 

[Lindsey]

Thats what I am thinking.

Also, my boyfriend suggested that maybe his forefeet were just extra sore from having needles shoved in them and stuff sucked out, that they were bruised or something. I was too panicked to think of that.


Thanks for responding to the false alarm though!

 

[Dave Weldon]

...and he ate (normal amount of daily food, about 6 superworms)

...hes on 0.2 cc batril daily until the labs come back in a week. Then the prescription may change...

Howdy Lindsey,

Just to double-check your 0.2cc Baytril prescription:
What's your chameleon's weigh?
What's the Baytril strength on the Baytril bottle (25mg/ml)?

Also, sorry I missed reading the follow-on posts in your other thread . Not only did I miss the updates in it but I missed the original part about your Supers and Silks feeding schedule . He may be getting too much food (calories); and of that food, too much fat. Once a full grown adult Veiled, many keepers have already cut back to feeding only a few feeders every other day. Feeding just 2-3 food items (combo of roaches, supers, silks, horns, crickets etc.) every other day will maintain an adult's weight. By the way, it's very handy to keep a weight chart .

Got a few full-body photos of your Veileds?

 

[Lindsey]

He weighed 244 grams at the clinic, and the baytril says "oral suspension 2.5%/ml"

I have actually recently increased his food intake because I thought he looked thin. I used to feed every 2-3 days.

He has gained 20 grams since august.

I've been told that he is pretty big for a veiled, but he's my first and only so far, so I wouldn't know. He is about 8 1/2 inches from snout to base of his tail (not including length of his tail).

Do you think 244 grams is average for a chameleon of his size? I hope the vet didn't put a typo in the prescription. Thats what I thought first, but decided it was unlikely.

I will be talking to my vet again tomorrow (hopefully). He mentioned he was scheduled to be gone for a week soon (which sucks for me, but I guess everyone needs a vacation now and again).

I think he may have just been stressed and tired, because he did stop resting his head and climbed the branch a bit before falling asleep. And is supporting his own weight again.

Thanks for the replies everyone

 

[Lindsey]

By the way, it's very handy to keep a weight chart .

Got a few full-body photos of your Veileds?

I got a scale during the summer, which was when I decided he was too light, and upped his food intake.

Definitely agree in the weight monitoring. Especially for young reptiles, when you see them every day they don't really look different, but when you compare their charts its cool to see how much they have grown in your care!

And photos tomorrow, when he's awake.

 

[prettykttkat]

Did he have blood drawn? I notice after my chams have blood drawn they are lethargic and dehydrated for a few days. They have sunken in eyes at night when they sleep. This always freaks me out and I make them drink water even if they don't do it on their own. This gets them hydrated agian and they seem normal after a few days.

 

[Dave Weldon]

He weighed 244 grams at the clinic, and the baytril says "oral suspension 2.5%/ml"...

Howdy Lindsey,

Sorry for the delay in sorting out Baytril ideas....

If I have my notes straight:

2.5% Baytril is the same as 25mg/ml strength.

Chameleons are usually dosed at a rate of 5mg/kg on the low-side and up to 10mg/kg on the high-side.

So if we go with the 25mg/ml medicine strength and the 10mg/kg dose rate and we round-up your chameleon's weight to an even 250 grams then:

Your chameleon's dose 2.5mg of Baytril. There is 2.5mg of Baytril in 0.1ml of the liquid.

Bottom line: Based on the numbers that I've seen in Mader's Medical book and other places online, he would get a dose of 0.1ml.

If you are to dose him with 0.2ml then your Vet may have wanted to dose him at a rate of 20mg/kg which is twice the typical high dose for most reptiles.

 

[Lindsey]

Bottom line: Based on the numbers that I've seen in Mader's Medical book and other places online, he would get a dose of 0.1ml.

If you are to dose him with 0.2ml then your Vet may have wanted to dose him at a rate of 20mg/kg which is twice the typical high dose for most reptiles.

I talked to the vet and he did say he put Archie on a high dose on purpose, but to reduce it because he doesn't seem to be handling it well. So yesterday I only did a 0.1 cc treatment and gave him LOTS of water from a syringe dripping in it into his mouth.

He looked really bad, and I was worried he would fall from his branches so I put him on the ground and moved his heat there, and am keeping it at 85F at all times (I got a night-glo bulb so he could sleep still).

My friend is a vet tech, and she also keeps alot of reptiles and has kept chameleons before. She said that since he is older his kidneys and liver may not be working to full capacity, and couldn't handle the antibiotics. Since he's not eating I'm going to try to give him a powdered insectivore diet called Repta-aid to make sure he has some nutrition going into him, if he takes it.

I stopped treatment today, because I don't think Archie can handle more of the antibiotics and will talk to my vet tomorrow first thing, because they are closed sundays.

Did he have blood drawn?

He did not have blood drawn, but he did have aspirates taken from the swellings on his feet, and that bled a little.

 

[jannb]

I sure hope that Archie will get better. You are in my thoughts. Jann

 

[Lindsey]

Thanks Jann
I appreciate it.

 

[Lindsey]

Sad news.
Archie had been going downhill fast since I started antibiotic treatment on Thursday. He looked like he was in pain and on his way out so I took him to the vet to be euthanized this morning.
The vet said it was probably a combination of not taking the antibiotics well and the infection growing fast that did it.

I'm really choked. I never EVER thought I would be so upset over the loss of one of my reptiles. Archie is the first pet of mine to ever die. I hope its not as hard to take when the rest of my reptiles get old and die.

Anyways, here are some photos of Archie, when I first got him and as an adult. I wish I had taken some recent photos before he got sick. The most recent ones are from over a year and a half ago.

The first one is brand-new Archie, I've had him for about 4 weeks
Archie is wondering whats for dinner in the second one
The third one he is probably about 3 1/2 to 4 years old

I miss him alot.

 

[jannb]

I am so sorry to hear about Archie. My heart really goes out to you. He was such a handsome boy.

 

[pssh]

I'm very sorry for your loss, but I'm sure he had a great life with you.

 

[Syn]

Lindsey I'm so sorry. Things like this happen, but just be happy knowing you gave him the best.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Sad story. Amazing how often I see this with baytril.

 

[Lindsey]

Thanks guys.
I think I want to stay active on the forum, even though I no longer own a chameleon. Everyone is very knowledgeable, and there is always room to grow.
Also, the more I see Archie's empty tank, the more I want to get another cham someday, so this site will be here to help me choose!