Help! Baby panther chameleon seems sick

[Crestyverse]

Chameleon Info

• Panther chameleon
• Sold to me as a male/unknown (would actually be happy if someone let me know if this seems correct or not)
• 2,5 months old
• Have been in my care for approximately 1 month.
• Is around 8cm long. (from nose to tail tip) (aprox. 3,15 inches)

Handling
Very rarely since I know it stresses him, have been handled 3 times when needed to.

Feeding
Drosophilia hydei/fruit flies, aprox. 20 of them daily if he wants to eat. Have attempted to give him acheta domestica/house cricket, has only seen him eat 1 but has
attempted to feed him some more. Haven't actually seen him eat them myself.
Morning, around 08.00-09.00AM, 2nd feeding around 3.00PM
The achesta domestica I have gut-loaded with organic carrot, apple and kale.

The pet store I bought him from gave me regular acheta domestica crickets, small sized, however they looked to be too big.
The pet store said they let their chameleons hunt free range.
I've had a really difficult time to get someone to sell me pinhead crickets and asked the pet store where I got him from to order some in for me... and they forgot to.
I ordered from the internet at a site called reptilgrottan.se once I sent them an e-mail and confirmed them selling those. Have not yet received them but I believe
this is one of the main reasons why he hasn't been eating properly.

Supplements
Reptivite vitamins for reptiles with d3 was what I was provided to give him daily.
However I read up on vitamin overdoses and that too much d3 is bad.
Went to a forum to ask about what to give him and a breeder of chameleons recommended stocky tongue farm mineral supplement with d3,
mainly cause it is not as big of a dose of d3 if I understood correctly.
I mainly give him the sticky formula farm calcium supplement daily and then reptivite vitamins for reptiles once a week.

Watering
Mainly handspraying for misting 2-3 times a day. I have installed a dripper that is on around the clock.
When I got him I saw him drink and his urates were clear/white.

Saw recent urates were alarmingly orangey. Haven't seen him actually drink either.

Fecal Description
The color of the recent feces I found was very dark brown and dry.

He has not yet been tested for parasites.

History
I have not had a lizard before Cedric (the panther chameleon's name). I told the pet store this and had great believes in them since they have a really
good reputation where I live. I trusted that they would help me with everything I needed to provide him a good living.
The pet store sold him to me and said he was only 1,5 months. Now I know chameleons are preferably sold at 3 months and not so young as I have
received. There's several red flags I have gotten from the pet store in hindsight and regret supporting that business.
Now I have a sick cham and I hope to make him bounce back to health.

Cage Info:

Cage Type
I have a glass cage with ventilation on the top and a sidevent on the right wall. The cage is a reptizoo cage, purchased at the same location as my cham.
The dimensions are 45x(W)45(D)x60(H)

Lighting

• Dual dome
• Reptizoo beam spot lamp 60W
• Rep TechUVB spiral lamp 26W, 230V, 5.0
• Daily schedule is 07.00AM-07.00PM

Temperature

• Heighest gradient is 24 degrees celsius (75.5 degrees fahrenheit), lowest gradient is 22 degrees (71.6 degrees fahrenheit),
• Basking spot around 29~30 degrees celsius (84.2~86 degrees fahrenheit)
• Lowest overnight temp (mid-range gradient) is around 22~23 degrees celsius (71.6~73.4 degrees fahrenheit).
• I use a hygrometer and place the thermometer part of it at the points in the cage where I want to measure the temperature in.

Humidity
I handspray to increase humidity if needed. There's aslo a dripper, live plants, substrate and the glass cage helps to contain the humidity. Humidity tends to be around 55% and increases around 80% during night.
I use a hygrometer to measure the humidity levels.

Plants (live)

• Schefflera Arboricola
• Phobos
• Anthurium,
• Ivy/hedera helix

Substrate
Sangl-Pro Orchid and terrarium coconut husk bedding

Placement
The cage is located in our bedroom, because we spend the least time in there. We've problem with draft from the windows, we live in an old apartment
but he is located further away from it and closer to the doorway. I'll provide a picture below of the placement and how the enclosure looks like. (see pictures below)

At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
160cm ~63 inches

Location
I live in the Nordics, Sweden.

Current Problem
My panther chameleon hasn't grown since I received him, at least not notably so. I am worried he is underweight.
He seems to have a loss of appetite and I am also worried why he has started sleeping so much. Once he is awake though, he is active and moves around the cage.
He also has started to be active later and go to sleep earlier. This happened around wintertime and it gets very dark where I live. I thought it had something to do with that but I have a feeling it doesn't.

Lately he has been very stressed. I think I know part of this issue but it is dealt with now. One of our cats has been climbing onto his cage when we were not around.
We've started to close the bedroom for her not to enter but the damage seems to have been done as he has showed signs of being very stressed.
Because of this we avoid being in that room all-together, at the same time it is hard to monitor him if we can't keep an eye on him without stressing him out.

I have booked a time at the vet but the earliest I can take him there is 9th of November, they also said they had an emergency time for the 6th and if it looks really bad to you, I'll attempt to get that time.
I appreciate any advice I can get and try to make any changes that might improve his health meanwhile.
--------------

My chameleon, Cedric
Most recent pictures of him 2020-10-31

Some pictures from 2020-09-29

Enclosure and placement in room

 

[Kaizen]

I do t have a ton of time, so I’ll let others go through your form, but stop using REPTIVITE at every feeding. Even if you had the NO d3 kind, it’s still way too many vitamins. Twice a month max.

 

[Crestyverse]

I do t have a ton of time, so I’ll let others go through your form, but stop using REPTIVITE at every feeding. Even if you had the NO d3 kind, it’s still way too many vitamins. Twice a month max.

Thank you so much! I truly appreciate that you took your time to inform me about this.

 

[Haley Hendrix]

I’ll review give me a few minutes.

 

[Kaizen]

Chameleon Info

• Panther chameleon
• Sold to me as a male/unknown (would actually be happy if someone let me know if this seems correct or not)
• 2,5 months old
• Have been in my care for approximately 1 month.
• Is around 8cm long. (from nose to tail tip) (aprox. 3,15 inches)

Handling
Very rarely since I know it stresses him, have been handled 3 times when needed to.

Feeding
Drosophilia hydei/fruit flies, aprox. 20 of them daily if he wants to eat. Have attempted to give him acheta domestica/house cricket, has only seen him eat 1 but has
attempted to feed him some more. Haven't actually seen him eat them myself.
Morning, around 08.00-09.00AM, 2nd feeding around 3.00PM Time for crickets and roaches. Dust them with plain calcium with no D3 for the next week to try to work through his excess vitamins.
The achesta domestica I have gut-loaded with organic carrot, apple and kale.Though this is better than nothing, you could up your game here. Try 60-70% high calcium greens such as collard greens, dandelion, kale; 20-25% other high carotenoid veggies such as butternut squash, sweet potato, etc; 5-10% healthy fruits such as papaya, apple orange

The pet store I bought him from gave me regular acheta domestica crickets, small sized, however they looked to be too big. You want crickets and roaches around 0.3-0.6 cm.
The pet store said they let their chameleons hunt free range. Try cup feeding and freeranging your bugs.
I've had a really difficult time to get someone to sell me pinhead crickets and asked the pet store where I got him from to order some in for me... and they forgot to.
I ordered from the internet at a site called reptilgrottan.se once I sent them an e-mail and confirmed them selling those. Have not yet received them but I believe
this is one of the main reasons why he hasn't been eating properly.

Supplements
Reptivite vitamins for reptiles with d3 was what I was provided to give him daily. Until you find a supplement regime that you feel comfortable with, try the following: plain calcium with no d3 at every feeding. Reptivite with d3 twice/month.
However I read up on vitamin overdoses and that too much d3 is bad. I mentioned this already
Went to a forum to ask about what to give him and a breeder of chameleons recommended stocky tongue farm mineral supplement with d3,
mainly cause it is not as big of a dose of d3 if I understood correctly.
I mainly give him the sticky formula farm calcium supplement daily and then reptivite vitamins for reptiles once a week. still too much reptivite.

Watering
Mainly handspraying for misting 2-3 times a day. I have installed a dripper that is on around the clock.Dripper during the day, misting when lights off. Here’s an easy schedule: mist just before lights on, just after lights off, and just before you go to sleep. Also figure out a way to keep your NIGHTIME humidity near 100%, while your daytime humidity can drop into the 40’s
When I got him I saw him drink and his urates were clear/white.

Saw recent urates were alarmingly orangey. Haven't seen him actually drink either. Orange urates can be a sign of dehydration, though several keepers find urates that are 15-50% orange to be acceptable. That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if vitamin overdose could have an affect on the color of urates.

Fecal Description
The color of the recent feces I found was very dark brown and dry.

He has not yet been tested for parasites.

History
I have not had a lizard before Cedric (the panther chameleon's name). I told the pet store this and had great believes in them since they have a really
good reputation where I live. I trusted that they would help me with everything I needed to provide him a good living.
The pet store sold him to me and said he was only 1,5 months. Now I know chameleons are preferably sold at 3 months and not so young as I have
received. There's several red flags I have gotten from the pet store in hindsight and regret supporting that business.
Now I have a sick cham and I hope to make him bounce back to health.

Cage Info:

Cage Type
I have a glass cage with ventilation on the top and a sidevent on the right wall. The cage is a reptizoo cage, purchased at the same location as my cham.
The dimensions are 45x(W)45(D)x60(H)
This size of enclosure will work until he is about 4 months, but it won’t work for an adult. You’re looking at 60cm x 60 cm x 120 cm. You can go 30 cm shorter, if you go 30 cm wider.
Lighting

• Dual dome
• Reptizoo beam spot lamp 60W
• Rep TechUVB spiral lamp 26W, 230V, 5.0This lamp will not deliver sufficient uvb levels. You really want to look at a T5 high output bulb. Depending on the new cage you get, a 60 or 90 cm bulb and fixture is what you want.
• Daily schedule is 07.00AM-07.00PM

Temperature

• Heighest gradient is 24 degrees celsius (75.5 degrees fahrenheit), lowest gradient is 22 degrees (71.6 degrees fahrenheit),
• Basking spot around 29~30 degrees celsius (84.2~86 degrees fahrenheit)
• Lowest overnight temp (mid-range gradient) is around 22~23 degrees celsius (71.6~73.4 degrees fahrenheit).you can drop this much lower...like 15-18
• I use a hygrometer and place the thermometer part of it at the points in the cage where I want to measure the temperature in.

Humidity
I handspray to increase humidity if needed. There's aslo a dripper, live plants, substrate and the glass cage helps to contain the humidity. Humidity tends to be around 55% and increases around 80% during night.Try to push your nightime humidity higher.
I use a hygrometer to measure the humidity levels.

Plants (live)

• Schefflera Arboricola
• Phobos
• Anthurium,
• Ivy/hedera helix

Substrate
Sangl-Pro Orchid and terrarium coconut husk bedding

Placement
The cage is located in our bedroom, because we spend the least time in there. We've problem with draft from the windows, we live in an old apartment
but he is located further away from it and closer to the doorway. I'll provide a picture below of the placement and how the enclosure looks like. (see pictures below)

At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
160cm ~63 inches

Location
I live in the Nordics, Sweden.

Current Problem
My panther chameleon hasn't grown since I received him, at least not notably so. I am worried he is underweight.
He seems to have a loss of appetite and I am also worried why he has started sleeping so much. Once he is awake though, he is active and moves around the cage.
He also has started to be active later and go to sleep earlier. This happened around wintertime and it gets very dark where I live. I thought it had something to do with that but I have a feeling it doesn't.

Lately he has been very stressed. I think I know part of this issue but it is dealt with now. One of our cats has been climbing onto his cage when we were not around.
We've started to close the bedroom for her not to enter but the damage seems to have been done as he has showed signs of being very stressed.
Because of this we avoid being in that room all-together, at the same time it is hard to monitor him if we can't keep an eye on him without stressing him out.

I have booked a time at the vet but the earliest I can take him there is 9th of November, they also said they had an emergency time for the 6th and if it looks really bad to you, I'll attempt to get that time.
I appreciate any advice I can get and try to make any changes that might improve his health meanwhile.
--------------Obviously, the cat stressor was not awesome, but if that’s dealt with, and you fix up your supplement regime, and upgrade your uvb, you should be good. However, please visit your vet.

 

[salty dog]

12 hours lights on 12 hours lights off, without a linear uv light it will die

 

[Crestyverse]

12 hours lights on 12 hours lights off, without a linear uv light it will die

I'll get that linear UV light ASAP!! Thank you for helping me out

 

[Crestyverse]

Time for...

Thank you so much for taking your time to respond to me, I am truly grateful! I'll follow your recommendations ASAP!!

 

[Kaizen]

Thank you so much for taking your time to respond to me, I am truly grateful! I'll follow your recommendations ASAP!!

No problem, bud. Let me know if you need anything else, or have more questions.

 

[Kaizen]

I'll get that linear UV light ASAP!! Thank you for helping me out

Make sure it’s a t5. My guess is Arcadia will be easier to access in Sweden. In which case, get a 6% or 12%. The 12% will be more versatile when you upgrade your cage, but you’ll have to keep it 20 cm above your current cage.

 

[Crestyverse]

No problem, bud. Let me know if you need anything else, or have more questions.

Thank you...! I realized I have some more questions already, it's about the vet visit. I have no idea how to transport him there safely.
I'd be grateful for any advice in this area, I have tried to google it but I didn't find any useful tips how to get one's chameleon _to_ the vet.

What kind of transport cage(?) should one have?
And what is the best way to provide a heatsource?

 

[Kaizen]

Thank you...! I realized I have some more questions already, it's about the vet visit. I have no idea how to transport him there safely.
I'd be grateful for any advice in this area, I have tried to google it but I didn't find any useful tips how to get one's chameleon _to_ the vet.

What kind of transport cage(?) should one have?
And what is the best way to provide a heatsource?

A plastic Tupperware container with a stick or dowel stuck through it, so s/he has something to hold on to. Make sure there are some air holes. Wrap the container in a nice towel, and that should keep it warm between the car and the house/vet’s office.

 

[Kaizen]

A plastic Tupperware container with a stick or dowel stuck through it, so s/he has something to hold on to. Make sure there are some air holes. Wrap the container in a nice towel, and that should keep it warm between the car and the house/vet’s office.

Also, it never hurts to bring in a fecal sample with you. The fresher, the better.

 

[Crestyverse]

A little update and more questions...

I received the light, bought a Arcadia T5 UVB 12% light 86cm, here it is set up 5/11.
Not a final solution the bicycle basket is 25cm and the actual glass-tank is more like 55cm in height if I don't count the plastic feet underneath it.
I plan to attach armatures to the wall and hang the light from those.

What kind of heatlamps do you recommend? Currently I use Reptizoo beam spot lamp 60W, but since I planned to buy back-up lights in case it
would break I was thinking of changing it. What's the most affordable but also waterproof (or as waterproof as they come)?
Also can/should I buy a spare UVB light or will it go bad if it is laying around unused?
Should I scrap the entire dual dome and get some other lamp reflector/dome for the heat lamp solely?

His pinhead crickets has finally arrived (5/11) and I have changed to those completely. He eats some of them but also hungerstrikes a little.
I have also ordered dubia roach nymphs but they have yet to arrive (hopefully next week).

I usually feed the crickets in their container but should I also have vegetables for them inside the enclosure in the feeding cup?
Also do you provide fresh vegetables every day for the feeders and remove the uneaten fruit & veggies the next day?

Caught him napping a bit still but I would say he does so less since I installed the new UVB-light.
He is not lethargic and moves around a lot in his cage. However he has started screen climbing, so I still think there's something I have to adjust :/
I have considering removing the bottom substrate in the enclosure and just use paper towels that I have seen some chameleon owners do with their husbandries. Something I should try?
Also is it dangerous if the bottom of the cage/substrate is constantly wet? I have noticed some days that there ends up pooling a lot of water and I am not sure if it's a health hazard.
I don't know how to drain it since I have not set up a drainage system. However I've considered following the bioactive enclosure article I found on this site.

Added another plant (ficus benjamina) and that has helped with the humidity levels during night (94%). However the day humidity remains around 54%.

I'm going to the see a vet tomorrow afternoon.

Not final set-up

 

[Fchamel]

Hello! The Arcadia 12% is too strong. You need a 6%. For a heat bulb, you can use a regular incandescent house bulb or The one you use is good. Make sure it does not have LED in it. The max temp should not go over 80 F for females and 85F for males. You can keep the dome you have, just use it for the heat lamp, or a plant light.

I see in your setup that your UVB bulb is all the way at the top. At that distance, your cham is barley or getting any or no UVB. For now, because you have the 12% keep your branches low, so your cham doesn't burn itself.

 

[Crestyverse]

Hello! The Arcadia 12% is too strong. You need a 6%. For a heat bulb, you can use a regular incandescent house bulb or The one you use is good. Make sure it does not have LED in it. The max temp should not go over 80 F for females and 85F for males. You can keep the dome you have, just use it for the heat lamp, or a plant light.

I see in your setup that your UVB bulb is all the way at the top. At that distance, your cham is barley or getting any or no UVB. For now, because you have the 12% keep your branches low, so your cham doesn't burn itself.

Make sure it’s a t5. My guess is Arcadia will be easier to access in Sweden. In which case, get a 6% or 12%. The 12% will be more versatile when you upgrade your cage, but you’ll have to keep it 20 cm above your current cage.

Hi! I followed Kaizen's advice about the UVB, but do you both agree on changing it to a 6% UVB light and have it laying on the mesh instead? I put it 20cm above my current cage (45x45x60cm (or rather 55cm) because of how much deeper the 12% light penetrates which I intended to re-use for a bigger enclosure. But it's now that matters, so if he needs a 6% rather than a 12% I will change it but will the 12% be re-usable if I put it away for later use?

 

[Kaizen]

I’m totally ok with using a 12%, if it’s raised up a bit. I actually use 12% and 10.0s far more than I use the weaker bulbs. I just make sure my UVIs are where they should be.

 

[Fchamel]

Hi! I followed Kaizen's advice about the UVB, but do you both agree on changing it to a 6% UVB light and have it laying on the mesh instead? I put it 20cm above my current cage (45x45x60cm (or rather 55cm) because of how much deeper the 12% light penetrates which I intended to re-use for a bigger enclosure. But it's now that matters, so if he needs a 6% rather than a 12% I will change it but will the 12% be re-usable if I put it away for later use?

You can keep what you have ???. Just what @Kaizen said.

 

[Crestyverse]

I was to the vet today.
Cedric is only 2g although he should be 3-5g at this age.
His gum was pale and she said he most likely has very few red blood cells.

Give him 0,005ml Zolcal (liquid calcium and d3 supplement) 1 time every day.
Heighten the temperature on his basking spot to 31-32 celsius degrees.
Carnivore care to give him 1-2 times a day, 0,05-0,1ml, each time.

Couldn't see parasites in his poop but couldn't get a fresh enough sample for them. We will treat for 1-cell organisms anyway with Flagyl, 0,03ml, 1 time every week for 3 weeks.

And then she recommended to give him extra Repashy Vitamin A plus, 1 time a week during a month.

I have a revisit booked in 2 weeks from today.

She wanted me to give Reptivite d3 way more often than once a week or every 2nd... That confused me a lot.

She also said the humidity was way too high during the night and that it should be 60% and that the temperature 22 cesius degrees was too low... confused me as well since I have read otherwise elsewhere. She said it was because the water becomes particles in too high humidity which they breath in with bacteria if any is present... something like that.

Is it this different in care because of his age?

 

[Kaizen]

I was to the vet today.
Cedric is only 2g although he should be 3-5g at this age.
His gum was pale and she said he most likely has very few red blood cells.

Give him 0,005ml Zolcal (liquid calcium and d3 supplement) 1 time every day.
Heighten the temperature on his basking spot to 31-32 celsius degrees.
Carnivore care to give him 1-2 times a day, 0,05-0,1ml, each time.

Couldn't see parasites in his poop but couldn't get a fresh enough sample for them. We will treat for 1-cell organisms anyway with Flagyl, 0,03ml, 1 time every week for 3 weeks.

And then she recommended to give him extra Repashy Vitamin A plus, 1 time a week during a month.

I have a revisit booked in 2 weeks from today.

She wanted me to give Reptivite d3 way more often than once a week or every 2nd... That confused me a lot.

She also said the humidity was way too high during the night and that it should be 60% and that the temperature 22 cesius degrees was too low... confused me as well since I have read otherwise elsewhere. She said it was because the water becomes particles in too high humidity which they breath in with bacteria if any is present... something like that.

Is it this different in care because of his age?

Look, there are very few vets on this site, and far be it from any of us non-vets to disagree with your vet’s recommendations, but I’d certainly make sure your vet has actual chameleon experience. I find the use of metronidazole on a 2gm chameleon to be a bit scary, and probably difficult to implement. Metronidazole should be used when flagellated Protozoa are confirmed, not prophylactically, nor as a “guess”. Again, that’s coming from a hobbyist, not a vet. Likewise, nightime humidity and daytime temps are pretty well established parameters for your species, and deviation from these should be undertaken with caution. I have no idea whether this is appropriate, but I’ll tag some one here: @ferretinmyshoes ?