Hello!

[sarahw]

Greetings! New here.

I'm interested in perhaps acquiring a chameleon in the future! I am starting my research, and have a couple beginner's questions. As a member of several forum communities, I have learned that forums are a wonderful tool for connecting with others and sharing wisdom. I have not yet started purchasing books, but I have done a fair few days' worth of research thus far.

I am trying to decide if I would like to acquire a 1.1 pair of Uroplatus Sikorae Sikorae/ Uroplatus Pietschmanni, or a (veiled? panther?) chameleon- I have done several months of research on Uroplatus, but the concept of chosing another species of lizard is tempting! Chameleons are beautiful and fascinating creatures, but I have always been daunted by their reputation for being easily stressed and therefore easily killed.

*claps hands together* So! I keep and breed Rhacodactylus species geckos, so I'm not a stranger to arboreal species of lizard. Rhacs are really hardy though, and I feel ready for a challenge! I also have *most* of the materials I believe are necessary for a good chameleon setup.. At least I think so!

Alright, here are my questions.

Prey: I have a breeding colony of blaptica dubia (orange spotted roach) that I use to beef breeder females during the season, feed to my tubby spoiled leopard gecko and amuse my Chahoua with. Most resources I have read suggest that crickets should be the primary food insect, but much of the data that I have read concerning roaches points to the roach being a superior feeder insect in terms of not only nutritional value, but as a reproducing source of food (their ease of keeping and lack of horrible stench among just some of the pluses here). Are B. Dubia alright to feed as a staple diet? Also, some sites suggest that mealworms and superworms are okay to throw in once in a while... I am not used to feeding these kinds of worms to my lizards, as the exoskeleton is very chitinous. This exoskeleton does not pose an impaction threat to chameleons?

Supplementation: A supplement that I hold in very high esteem is Allen Repashy's "Calcium Plus" supplement. It has been used with excellent results for eublepharids, rhacs, phelsuma, uroplatus and more. It also contains a pigment booster called "superpig", that enhances the brightness of the lizard's color. Is this supplement good for use with Chameleons?

Humidity: My "reptile room" is filled with 40 some odd enclosures, all which are heavily misted every evening. Due to live plants and thorough saturation with water, this room maintains an even 70% humidity at most times of the day, with a drop to no less than 60% during the height of the afternoon. However, this room has many large windows, allowing fluctuation of temperatures between 72 and 76 degrees farenheit. I control the temperature by running an air conditioning unit on low outside of the room, and gently blowing the cooled air into the room with a standing fan. This circulation of air will not be harmful, will it? [Also, during the winter months, Iowa becomes EXTREMELY dry. After a few years of struggling with the humidity and a few painful deaths to learn my lesson, I have come to depend on a warm-air humidifier during the winter here. In order to keep the humidity elevated, the doors must be closed, therefore circulation of air is much lower. Will I need to move him out of the room, and just mist frequently?]

Thanks in advance for any answers. Sorry it was so long winded. I value good husbandry practices and learning/research is important to me!

 

[cushcameleon]

Welcome to the forum, sounds like you have loads of experience, which will definitely help you with chameleons. I think most people who keep chameleons would say that it is mainly time consuming, which is what makes it challenging. They really do require special attention but as long as you have good knowledge about these creatures and what signs to look out for, then you should be capable of having success with them as pets. Dubias are great staple feeders for chameleons. My chameleons love them. Chitin in mealworms and superworms definitely have the possiblity of causing impaction in chameleons. Since your room is able to maintain high humidity and low temperatures, maybe you should consider keeping a montane species? A carpet chameleon may be a good start as they are considered hardy compared to some other chameleons.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hello and welcome. This is indeed a good place to do research - make use of the search feature. As well, here are some links to additional good sources of info:
http://www.adcham.com/
http://www.chameleonnews.com/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/02/veiled-chameleons-anatomy.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/
http://www.herpvetconnection.com
http://www.chamaeleonidae.com
http://www.animalarkshelter.org/cin/
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/breeds/chameleons.htm
http://www.chameleonsonline.com/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/82-enclosures-housing.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/68-lighting-links.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/92-hydration-importance.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition.html

Hope all that doesnt wear ya out!

Roaches are an excellent prey for chameleons.
I believe Variety is important, so I dont personally have a "staple" item but rather switch the insects up each day. But yes roaches are often a staple feeder. Mealworms are not a good option for anything other than an occassional treat. The exoskeleton DOES pose an impaction threat to chameleons. Superworms (when gutloaded) are okay, though in my opinion should not be offered daily, but rather twice a week or less. Other feeder options: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html

I have not used the supplement brand you mention, and dont know whats in it, so can not specifically speak to its usefullness.
Info on supplementing: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/65-supplements.html

50-70% humditiy is fine, for most types of chameleon. If its over 70%, you may run into respiratory issues.

I often recommend a male panther or veiled for beginners (with females you have to deal with the whole egg laying thing)

 

[Dean Pulcini]

I say this to all new comers veiled and panthers are good choices to get started with a panther is probably best considering you are familiar with species from Madagascar and the conditions that these animals require. But above all give yourself a chance and start with captive hatched or captive born and bred chameleons.

Dean

 

[sarahw]

Thanks everyone for the welcomes and replies!

I was thinking of starting with a male Nosy Be chameleon. The blue coloration is simply amazing!

Here is the breakdown on the contents of Calcium Plus:

The "All in One" Supplement Solution.

Calcium Plus ICB is a unique blend of calcium, protein, fat, fiber, and vitamins. It is designed to be used as the exclusive supplementation for insectivorous species. It is formulated to "balance" the nutritional value of feeder insects, and in most cases, to be used with every feeding. It provides all essential nutrients in a one simple to use product. No need for separate vitaman and calcium products. It contains a proven level of Vitamin D-3, and a proven ratio of Vitamin D-3 to Calcium. It also contains preformed Vitamin A at a 10:1 ratio of Vitamin A/ Vitamin D-3 which is essential to proper nutrition.Calcium plus also contains Beta Carotene in addition to preformed Vitamin A and is the only Reptile supplement available that contains both.

It has been proven that preformed Vitamin A is required via supplementation for Reptiles in captivity. Beta Carotene can be converted by some species into Vitamin A, but it is in doubt that insectivores can accomplish this assimilation. There are many documented cases of Vitamin A deficiency that have been caused by supplements that only use Beta Carotene as a source of Vitamin A. Providing both sources at moderate levels is unique to the Superfoods line.

In the mid 90's, there was an uneducated report by a private breeder that claimed Vitamin A toxicity in Chameleons from supplementation that put a scare into reptile keepers. Vitamin supplements soon came out using only Beta Carotene as a reaction to the hype. More than ten years later, we now know that these reports were false, and that vitamin A deficiency from these Beta Carotene only supplements is far more common than any toxicity from products with vitamin A. In fact, the confirmed cases of Vitamin A toxcicity in reptiles is practically nil. Vitamin D-3 toxicity is, on the other hand, a very real concern, and some supplements on the market contain VERY high levels of this vitamin.

The ratio of Vitamin A/D-3 is also very important and essential to proper nutrition. Supplementing a Vitamin powder separately from a Calcium/D-3 product allows for great error in the A/D-3 ratio because it is nearly impossible to get the a balance this way.

Calcium Plus ICB solves this ratio problem by including the correct ratio in one product, which eliminates the guesswork. We use only the highest and most stabilized forms of vitamins, which allows them to be used in a high mineral product without the degradation concerns that we had 20 years ago (which many people still think is a problem).

Certain species require, or are more sensitive to vitamin D supplementation than others. With a balanced ratio of calcium/phosphorous (calculated based on a dusted cricket) and vitamins which are balanced to these mineral levels, the guesswork is eliminated, and the question becomes how much to use. Most species will be just fine receiving insects dusted with Calcium Plus at every feeding, but this can be reduced to once, or a few time a week for sensitive species. The level of Vitamin D-3 used in the Calcium Plus is near ten times less than that of some popular products.

Having the proper ratio is the key. Too much calcium blocks and binds gut absorbtion, too much D-3 can lead to calcification of internal organs. With the balanced formula of the Calcium Plus, the only variable left is how often to use it.

It contains Three natural pigment enhancing ingredients. First is Haemotococcus Algae (Naturose), which is a source of natural Astaxanthan (Pink, Red and Orange Pigments). This is the carotenoid pigment that makes salmon flesh orange, and flamingos pink. In captivity, Flamingos would be white, and so would salmon flesh.. without supplementation such as the source we use here. We use marigold extract for natural Yellow Pigments.. this carotenod is used in poultry egg production to make nice yellow egg yolks. We also use the finest Spirulina Algae, which contains full spectrum carotenoid pigments.... This unique blend of pigment enhancing ingredients is sure to bring out the brightest colors in your herps... The orange in that Carrot Tail, and the Red in your Bearded Dragon. For additional supplementation, this unique color enhancing blend is available in a "pure" form in the product "SuperPig" which can be further added to this and other supplement products or diets.


Ingredients:

Micro fine mined Calcium Carbonate (3-5 micron average size) which is the finest grind available. Vitamin Premix (see analysis for deteais). Whey Protein Isolate (source of isolated protein). Hempseed Flour. Wheat Germ Meal, Brewers Yeast. Rose Hips Powder (source of natural vitamin C) Spirulina Algae (source of Beta Carotene). Haematococcus pluvialis algae (source of astaxanthan red pigments) Marigold Extract (source of yellow pigments). Probioic premix. Roseary Extract, Yucca Extract, Natural Mixed Tocopherols (as a preservative)

Analysis:

Calcium 18%
Phosphorous 0 %
Protein 10%
Fat 1%
Fiber 2%
Vitamin D-3 48,000 IU/KG
Vitamin A 480,000 IU/kg
Beta Carotene 1,000 mg/kg
Choline 12,000 mg/kg
Vitamin C 5,000 mg/kg
Vitamin E 2000 IU/kg
Vitamin B1 80 mg/kg
Vitamin B2 160 mg/kg
Vitamin B3 1,000 mg/kg
Vitamin B5 300 mg/kg
Vitmain B6 120 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 1 mg/kg
Vitamin K 60 mg/kg
Biotin 4mg/kg

Quote Source: http://www.northerngecko.ca/ng-cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=44

Allen Repashy's article on Calcium Plus ICB:
http://www.reptiles.repashy.com/calciumd.htm

Hope that helps get a little more feedback on it.

I have a question about handling. I understand that for all intensive purposes, chameleons are meant to be display animals that are for visual enjoyment and observation, more than for the experience of handling. However, I would like to have an animal that isn't going to go ape on me when removing for necessary and occasional actions, such as cage cleaning, photography, and health inspection. What kind of handling is best for a chameleon to maintain an even-keel toward the keeper? Typically, I handle all of my geckos once every other day, usually for a couple minutes each (longer periods of time for more feisty buggers that need more acclimating). Everyone gets a health inspection during feeding day, which is every odd day of the week, plus this short handling session. Is this too often for a chameleon?

Thanks for the feedback on the superworms and mealworms. They are what I am currently feeding as feeder variety for my spoiled tremper albino patternless leopard gecko. Based on a couple websites I've gone through, they suggested that these insects could be used as staple feeders, but I use these insects with caution even with my leopard gecko, and tend to feed as many fresh-molts as possible to avoid any impaction issues. Aside from crickets, what are some other "variety is the spice of life" insects that I could feed if I plan on using Dubia as a general fallback staple diet?

Also, at what age is it best for a beginner chameleon keeper to acquire a chameleon? I have read that somewhere around 6 months of age is best. Is this true?

What hard-copy books are there that would make a great hand-manual for me to pick up?

 

[cushcameleon]

Handling chameleons is a very debatable issue. Some chameleons will literally walk right on your hand, while others will do all they can to avoid you at all costs. Some are also very aggressive and will litterally try to fight-off your hand. In other words, all chameleons respond differently, but generally you should hold your chameleon as very little as possible. In terms of other good feeders, lots of people on this site use silkworms. My chameleons also love silkworms and are very stimulated by their movement. Other healthy worm options are butterworms and hornworms. Lots of members use this site for buying feeders www.mulberryfarms.com. The most important thing about feeders is gutloading. Sandrachameleon has a very useful blog on this sort of thing.

 

[laurie]

Let me add my welcome to the others.
My nosey be is very friendly and would be okay with needed handling. The six months is an excellent age for your first cham. Not so young as to be too fragile yet you would still get to watch him mature into that special chameleon - yours.
Before you decide take a look at the carpet chameleons suggested by Cushchameleon, I have just stated with Montanes, I have quad's, but a carpet would be a great first Montane and your environment is almost perfect.

This forum has books for sale. Go to the books tab at the top. Each will tell you what it is about.

What part of Iowa are you from? I went to college at Iowa State, in Ames. But that was many years ago.

Again welcome and use the people on here for resources, we often differ in our opinions but consider all and take what you need.

 

[merumontanus]

What hard-copy books are there that would make a great hand-manual for me to pick up?

Hi Sarah,

Welcome to the Chameleon Forums. The first book I would suggest is "Chameleons: Nature's Hidden Jewels" by Petr Necas, second edition. Another great book is "A Field Guide to the Reptiles of East Africa: Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi" by Stephen Spawls et. al.-- though less complete in terms of general natural history and management. It also contains several nomenclatural misspellings, but the many interesting species profiles not found in other books makes it a worthy buy.

Chameleons: Nature's Hidden Jewels

A Field Guide to the Reptiles of East Africa: Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi

And of course, if you are not familiar with Zoo Book Sales, you must check them out.

Again, welcome to the world of chameleons-- your detailed posts are appreciated.

Cheers,

Fabián

 

[Syn]

KESTREL!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHH! *screams* WELCOME!

I knew that avatar from somewhere!

This site is FULL of information. If you ever need me you can always find me in the flashchat in case of an emergency!

 

[sarahw]

Handling chameleons is a very debatable issue. Some chameleons will literally walk right on your hand, while others will do all they can to avoid you at all costs. Some are also very aggressive and will litterally try to fight-off your hand. In other words, all chameleons respond differently, but generally you should hold your chameleon as very little as possible. In terms of other good feeders, lots of people on this site use silkworms. My chameleons also love silkworms and are very stimulated by their movement. Other healthy worm options are butterworms and hornworms. Lots of members use this site for buying feeders www.mulberryfarms.com. The most important thing about feeders is gutloading. Sandrachameleon has a very useful blog on this sort of thing.

Am I to gather then, that it does not matter how much I may hold an aggressive or shy chameleon, it will not change much or at all in disposition and attempting to tame it with regular handling is futile? If this is the case, I am perhaps understandably mildly disappointed, but not deterred! Thank you for the info.

Thanks a lot for the link. Are these caterpillar-esque worms difficult to maintain? I imagine that with having just one chameleon to feed, cost-effectiveness becomes an issue... And I'm going to assume that you cannot put a hornworm in the refrigerator, hahah. I actually used to raise black swallowtail butterflies, so I'm used to feeding caterpillars... But skipping the chrysalis to butterfly part is going to be a bit painful! I will look for Sandra's blog on gutloading.

Let me add my welcome to the others.
My nosey be is very friendly and would be okay with needed handling. The six months is an excellent age for your first cham. Not so young as to be too fragile yet you would still get to watch him mature into that special chameleon - yours.
Before you decide take a look at the carpet chameleons suggested by Cushchameleon, I have just stated with Montanes, I have quad's, but a carpet would be a great first Montane and your environment is almost perfect.

This forum has books for sale. Go to the books tab at the top. Each will tell you what it is about.

What part of Iowa are you from? I went to college at Iowa State, in Ames. But that was many years ago.

Again welcome and use the people on here for resources, we often differ in our opinions but consider all and take what you need.

That is good to hear- and thanks for the affirmation on age. Is "Montane" the scientific species, or common name?

And oooooh, books... I like books. Thanks for the tip. I will check those out.

I was born in Sioux City, raised in Mason City, and currently live in Ames. I am indeed going to Iowa State University, but deep inside I have a pending rage that wants to burn it to the ground, hahah... (kidding, of course- but there is a lot of pent up rage, that's for sure). I am studying Integrated Studio Arts, with an emphasis on metalsmithing. I wish to work out of my own studio and create reptile-related silver (and possibly gold in the future) jewelry. I also fancy myself to be a fairly decent illustrator.

KESTREL!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHH! *screams* WELCOME!

I knew that avatar from somewhere!

This site is FULL of information. If you ever need me you can always find me in the flashchat in case of an emergency!

Why helloooooo familiar face! A Pangea member, ooh la-la. Thanks for the welcome! Hey, guess what? I'm looking into chameleons. But I think you know that already. *grins* What kind of chameleons do you own? It's always fun to find a geckophile somewhere unfamiliar!

So okay, this is going to probably seem like the stupidest question ever, but.. *deep breath* ... Chams... don't stick to things... do they? Hahahah...

 

[Syn]

I have two veileds, had a panther but that's a sad story for another time.

They don't stick, they climb, with very sharp nails.

 

[jojackson]

Welcome Sarah

 

[sarahw]

Oh snap. Another question.

I was reading in one of the links inside a link inside another link (waah) that Chameleons are light sensitive. Every evening at 9 PM the lights come on temporarily, even days for approximately 15 minutes for a thorough misting of every enclosure and on odd days, between an hour and two hours for feeding. Is this a potential to cause stress for the chameleon?

 

[jojackson]

Oh snap. Another question.

I was reading in one of the links inside a link inside another link (waah) that Chameleons are light sensitive. Every evening at 9 PM the lights come on temporarily, even days for approximately 15 minutes for a thorough misting of every enclosure and on odd days, between an hour and two hours for feeding. Is this a potential to cause stress for the chameleon?

Its not nessesary to mist at night. Interuptions in your lizards photoperiod will stress it. Lighting is best used on a timer and regulated. Your lizard is diurnal.
Feeding is not nessesary outside your lizards regular photoperiod, it should have plenty of opportunity to feed during the day.
!2 hrs on/12 hrs off, unless you want to adjust for seasons (shorter days in winter 9-10 hrs).

 

[sarahw]

The night mistings are for the nocturnal geckos, that get their benefits from nighttime activity for eating and drinking.

Half of my enclosures that maintain living plants are also equipped with fluorescents which are set on a timer. The windows are not covered with any room darkeners, so the photoperiod coincides with the natural day/night cycle, and the fluorescents are set to match this cycle as best as possible. Currently, the sun completely sets somewhere around 8 PM, so there will have been approximately 2 hours of darkness before I come in to do my every-other-day feeding regimen for the geckos.

I suppose I could feed them earlier...

 

[jojackson]

and on odd days, between an hour and two hours for feeding.

Your geckos dont need lights for feeding.

 

[sarahw]

Your geckos dont need lights for feeding.

I need lights to see... @__@

 

[jojackson]

Ya, but for two hours? how many geckos do you have to feed?

Lights back on after darkness, even in the room will disturb the chameleon, if they on for 2 hrs. Maybe you could drape a sheet over the chameleon cage while you work.?
Does your chameleon become active on these off days? Short spells 10-15mins, with a room light on, ive not found to bother mine, but much longer than that and he becomes active.

Perhaps you could do your cleaning, water etc of the gex during the afternoon, since they will hiding and less likely to be disturbed. That leaves only misting and adding some insects after the lights go off at 8pm, meaning less time with lights on.
I also keep nocturnal geckos, though not in the same room as diurnals, but I pretty much do the same thing.

 

[sarahw]

45 to 50, it changes depending on what's hatched or sold... It takes about an hour to an hour and a half to feed and water all of them and make general health inspections. I have about 5 or 6 that are all being handfed for various reasons which takes an excruciating amount of time :\

Also, I don't actually have a cham yet, I'm just researching!

 

[jojackson]

Cool! well in that case you might simply consider keeping the cham elsewhere if possible.
Your going to love chameleons! Best wishes