Gutloading phoenix worms?

[Ferrah88]

So I've read quite a few things now.

Some say no gutloading required, they have lots of calcium already... well I would love to gutload. What's wrong with making them EVEN healthier?

It's been stated, that phoenix worms will eat soft fruit and veg.... My question is: Can I gutload the phoenix worms then with my juicing pulp + added juice to make it a bit more wet? Not sure if they'd eat it, but they should, right?

I have never kept phoenix worms before (My chameleons are scared of them at the moment actually) and would like some tips on their care if possible So far I have:

1) Keep them cool, but not cold.
2) Keep the lid firmly closed or they will pupate faster.

That's it really... also, are the shedding "skins" from the phoenix worms OK for my chameleons? It's hard to prevent accidentally picking up some of the dries stuff in there when moving them to a feeding lid!

Thanks in advance

 

[Bug Trader]

While Im unsure if your going to be able to get any nutritional benefit from it I still toss mine in a cup with a slice of orange or sweet potato an hour or two before feeding each day.

 

[DavidBuchan]

My phoenix worms always get a slice of butternut squash which they seem to really like. I haven't tried them on much fruit or veg so I can't exactly be sure of their preferences.
I wouldn't make them wet with juice or pulp, but slices of fruit will do no harm. The skins will do no harm to your cham

 

[Ferrah88]

While Im unsure if your going to be able to get any nutritional benefit from it I still toss mine in a cup with a slice of orange or sweet potato an hour or two before feeding each day.

I was thinking of throwing some into a separate container (The ones I will be feeding that day) and putting the pulp + juice mix in there. There should still be some nutritional benefit in there. I can't feed 1-2 hours before feeding because of when we get home. I have to feed the chameleons as soon as I get home because of how late it is when we do get home! If I want them to bask after eating and before sleeping that is They should eat that though, right? Or would I be wasting my time?

 

[Ferrah88]

My phoenix worms always get a slice of butternut squash which they seem to really like. I haven't tried them on much fruit or veg so I can't exactly be sure of their preferences.
I wouldn't make them wet with juice or pulp, but slices of fruit will do no harm. The skins will do no harm to your cham

I wasn't planning on soaaaking them. I would do it as I would with the crickets (Who seem so dumb that they drown in a drop of juice). I would only be adding the juice because the pulp can be drier than a slice of butternut squash Then I could just squish it and "paste" it into a corner of the container so nothing gets wet! It would simply allow them to eat easier I think, their heads seem teeny.

Good to know on the skin


These things are actually quite.. acrobatic. They were already escaping the containers while shipping, and they're getting out of this jar lid I have here..

 

[Bug Trader]

The problem with gutloading is the feeders digestive cycle, it varies in time so I prefer to load them up only an hour or two before feeding to ensure they are still in the gut loading/ stuffing themsilves full of nutrients but Im sure anything beats an under nurished feeder.
Butternut Squash is another great gutload as David mentions, containing vit A and many other nutrients.

 

[Ferrah88]

The problem with gutloading is the feeders digestive cycle, it varies in time so I prefer to load them up only an hour or two before feeding to ensure they are still in the gut loading/ stuffing themsilves full of nutrients but Im sure anything beats an under nurished feeder.
Butternut Squash is another great gutload as David mentions, containing vit A and many other nutrients.

Alright. Would gutloading (the worms I plan to feed when I get home) in the morning be alright? It would be almost half a day before they get "used", but they would still be "used". If I feed them 1-2 hours before, the chameleons might not get enough time to bask before they go to bed. Don't want them going to bed on freshly full stomachs!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Some say no gutloading required, they have lots of calcium already... well I would love to gutload. What's wrong with making them EVEN healthier?

EXACTLY

lots of good info in these links:

Keeping/breeding feeders
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/bsf-b...r-version-2-1/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/membe...der-flies.html
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/forum/

gutload all the time, or at least for the 48 hours prior (does not have to be only the 2 hours prior to feed off)
​

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Phoenix worms are amazing. They are actually soldier fly larvae if you want to look up more accurate information and uses for them.

They will eat anything.

 

[Ferrah88]

EXACTLY

lots of good info in these links:

Keeping/breeding feeders
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/bsf-b...r-version-2-1/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/membe...der-flies.html
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/forum/

gutload all the time, or at least for the 48 hours prior (does not have to be only the 2 hours prior to feed off)
​

Yay for links to read! I'll have lots of weekend reading to do Tonight I'll try and figure out a way to gutload them best.

Phoenix worms are amazing. They are actually soldier fly larvae if you want to look up more accurate information and uses for them.

They will eat anything.

I knew about the black soldier fly larvae already (I learned from someone on here that they were called phoenix worms. Here they have the direct german translation of "black soldier fly larvae" when buying them! ) But thank you for letting me know! I got them BECAUSE they're fly larvae.. and of course high in calcium and a different feeder. My chams don't seem impressed though. Yuki took a looong look at them (About 10 minutes) before scampering off. Marimo gave them a skeptical look, slowly turned around and, while looking back, stalked off to find a new branch well away from the worms. Hopefully they will come around Awesome to know they will eat anything too! I will just give them the same stuff I give my crickets then

 

[Bug Trader]

EXACTLY

lots of good info in these links:

Keeping/breeding feeders
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/bsf-b...r-version-2-1/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/membe...der-flies.html
http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/forum/

gutload all the time, or at least for the 48 hours prior (does not have to be only the 2 hours prior to feed off)
​

Gut load all the time? That would be the normal act of feeding your feeders, Gutloading is packing them full of nutrients before feeding them out, I keep quality food in the tubs with all feeders all the time, have to having a small feeder biz for over a decade but if you want maximum nutrition remove the feeders into an empty smaller container with just a gutloading nutrient rich food. It will boost their nutritional value and drive them to do nothing but eat until they are fed out.

2 hrs is not a must, just the way I do it as the gutloading only really lasts as long as the nutrients are in the feeder......

 

[Ferrah88]

So I chopped up some fresh veggies for the phoenix worms (My husband threw out the pulp before I could get at it) and it was very.. weird how these things eat! I put everything nicely on a lid, put the lid of food in an empty container and poured the worms on top. Now I have veggies swimming on my worms! I will get the right method of feeding these things, I swear!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Gut load all the time? That would be the normal act of feeding your feeders, Gutloading is packing them full of nutrients before feeding them out....

Many people feed their feeders well ALL the time, not just in the hours before feeding off. Makes for always healthy growing nutritious bugs, not just recently filled stomachs for bugs that previously ate poorly

 

[Ferrah88]

Gut load all the time? That would be the normal act of feeding your feeders, Gutloading is packing them full of nutrients before feeding them out, I keep quality food in the tubs with all feeders all the time, have to having a small feeder biz for over a decade but if you want maximum nutrition remove the feeders into an empty smaller container with just a gutloading nutrient rich food. It will boost their nutritional value and drive them to do nothing but eat until they are fed out.

2 hrs is not a must, just the way I do it as the gutloading only really lasts as long as the nutrients are in the feeder......

There's a difference between gutloading and feeding? I always assumed that feeding and gutloading were one in the same, just that gutloading was nutrient rich foods over just anything the feeder will eat. I want my bugs to grow healthy and pupate if they want! Marimo does not like the look of the worms, but he finds anything flying extremely tasty!

If I keep them fed all the time, the nutrients should absorb into their body, and their stomachs should always be full, no? I don't mind having to clean out the feeders every day and chopping up fresh things for them. Feeding/gutloading all the time shouldn't have any negative benefits, right?

Many people feed their feeders well ALL the time, not just in the hours before feeding off. Makes for always healthy growing nutritious bugs, not just recently filled stomachs for bugs that previously ate poorly

That's how I see it! I don't know the difference between "gutloading" and "feeding"... if there even IS a difference!



That being said, the worms look content. Some of them were "curled" up in a quarter of a blueberry, having eaten a hole in it Seems like they enjoy eating, and some of them look kinda fat now. The downside is that they're kinda all over the lid of the container now! Darn moisture giving them chances to climb!

 

[Bug Trader]

Many people feed their feeders well ALL the time, not just in the hours before feeding off. Makes for always healthy growing nutritious bugs, not just recently filled stomachs for bugs that previously ate poorly

Apparently you did not read my post, I have well over a decades experience keeping most feeders used in the herp and arachnid hobby today.

Gut load all the time? That would be the normal act of feeding your feeders, Gutloading is packing them full of nutrients before feeding them out, I keep quality food in the tubs with all feeders all the time, have to having a small feeder biz for over a decade but if you want maximum nutrition remove the feeders into an empty smaller container with just a gutloading nutrient rich food. It will boost their nutritional value and drive them to do nothing but eat until they are fed out.

2 hrs is not a must, just the way I do it as the gutloading only really lasts as long as the nutrients are in the feeder......

 

[sandrachameleon]

I did read your post - just didnt understand you
I also have well over a decades experience keeping feeders and reptiles etc. but that doesnt mean I cant learn something
- please do not take offense at my attempt to understand you

whats the difference between "I keep quality food in the tubs with all feeders all the time"
and "remove the feeders into an empty smaller container with just a gutloading nutrient rich food."

if they are eating quality gutload all the time, why move them to a smaller container and feed them the same gutload? what would be different about the small container gutload? How does it boost their nutritional value, if they've been eating well the whole time?