(GRAPHIC CONTENT) Hungry bioactive cleaner crew: P. Scaber "Giant Orange" aggressive protein seekers!

[dshuld]

Thank you so much @dshuld for doing this research and the experiments for us! This is how we humans learn, one bit of knowledge at a time!!! I am glad that this knowledge will make future bioactive keepers chameleons safer!

My pleasure, I hope it helps some others along the way too.

Wow that's crazy. I would be afraid they would eat my chams while they sleep.

With the giant orange I would too but they make a great snack since they are always active. Just have to watch and make sure none escape before being eaten lol.

I thought that first pic was a baby parrot! Lol! BSFL have quite the affinity to protein as well. I had a house gecko die in the enclosure(he was supposed to be food, but after a few weeks became another pet) and my cleanup crew had it down to bones in 2 days! BTW, he lived for over a year comfortably with my chameleon.

I have 5 or 6 of those too lol. They came in with a plant I had rinsed but left outside to let nature call haha. Two are still in the cage but the rest are roaming the house snagging escapee crickets lol.

I will never look at a roly poly bug the same again!

Me neither lol, especially the p. ornatus "south". After seeing this experiment play out the last three days, they may be a good bio active option for veiled chams since they also like it on the drier side of life. But now they've gotten their veggies replaced with fresh it's my turn for dinner lol.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

The rats were just for the visual of something I tried to mention in another thread since p. scaber were recommended to @Brodybreaux25 . I'm on his ignore list though so Matt was kind enough to start this for me in hopes Brody sees the pics since that recommendation has been bugging me since then. Normally my master cultures only get pieces of cheese, dead discoids, the same veggies I use for the other bugs and repashy morning wood as far as beyond the leaf litter, cuddle bone, palm bark and cork bark. The ones in enclosures get cuddle bone, either a small piece of carrot or sweet potato to supplment the leaf litter, shed and poop.

@dshuld idont have an ignore list, what are you talking about?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I welcome the opportunity to argue with everyone!

How do you see who’s ignoring you?

 

[dshuld]

I welcome the opportunity to argue with everyone!

How do you see who’s ignoring you?

You can't. I'll pm you on why I said that. One of your thread made it appear I was though .

 

[KeopiCat]

Woahhh, this is awesome! Are you continuing the experiments?

 

[SharpShooter]

The rats were just for the visual of something I tried to mention in another thread since p. scaber were recommended to @Brodybreaux25 . I'm on his ignore list though so Matt was kind enough to start this for me in hopes Brody sees the pics since that recommendation has been bugging me since then. Normally my master cultures only get pieces of cheese, dead discoids, the same veggies I use for the other bugs and repashy morning wood as far as beyond the leaf litter, cuddle bone, palm bark and cork bark. The ones in enclosures get cuddle bone, either a small piece of carrot or sweet potato to supplment the leaf litter, shed and poop.

I've used the giant orange (at least that's what they are labelled as where I get them from) since I started doing bioactives. This is from before I got my first cham. I then went with them for my chams as well.

I haven't seen any issues at all, even with crested geckos where the waste is in much smaller amounts than chams. I do make sure the CUC are also fed, so perhaps that helps.

I've certainly never seen them climb anything, but I'm not watching through the night of course. I do think it could be an issue with eggs if they aren't removed but even then, without having evidence, we're making a balance of probability guess.

I'm not going to put a pinkie in with any of my animals to test this but surely the size of the colony will also play a big part. I have seen a dubia take up to a couple of days to be fully removed whilst poop is taken care of in hours.

It's definitely very interesting and something to bear in mind going forward.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

You can't. I'll pm you on why I said that. One of your thread made it appear I was though .

That sucks, I’d love to know how many ignore list I’m on!

@Decadancin is there a way you can pull that information? Just #s, don’t want names!

@dshuld Just went back through that thread and your right, I never replied to you directly. I assure you it wasn’t intentional. I did take some of your advice though in regards to the soil bin as I did use the organic soil from my veggie garden like you suggested!

Don’t think I’m actually following anyone on here either but I always paid close attention to your comments when I was first starting out, you were a big influence on me and I definitely still value your opinion! As you can imagine between work, kids, ju jitsu, a whole home renovation(that still isn’t done!), and that build I was pretty busy at that time, I’m sure I overlooked other comments as well!

 

[jamest0o0]

I have so many pedes, isopods, and other critters that hitchhiked inside in my enclosure. You can go in at night and find a whole city of insects flying and crawling around. I have dropped fist fulls no exaggeration of old gutload and food in only to be demolished within a couple days max. Still never had a problem with my chams. I was thinking of even taking a video of it. I would imagine if I dropped a pinky in, it'd be gone overnight lol.

 

[jamest0o0]

One warning I will add- don't trust isopods with eggs! Of anything... certain species will eat everything from roach ootheca and snail eggs to chameleon eggs. Never seem to bother anything living though.

 

[dshuld]

Woahhh, this is awesome! Are you continuing the experiments?

I have a few more pinky rats in the freezer yet but once those are used up, no. This was really just to share as a caution of what that particular species is capable of vs some of the other species we use in our cages.

I've used the giant orange (at least that's what they are labelled as where I get them from) since I started doing bioactives. This is from before I got my first cham. I then went with them for my chams as well.

I haven't seen any issues at all, even with crested geckos where the waste is in much smaller amounts than chams. I do make sure the CUC are also fed, so perhaps that helps.

I've certainly never seen them climb anything, but I'm not watching through the night of course. I do think it could be an issue with eggs if they aren't removed but even then, without having evidence, we're making a balance of probability guess.

I'm not going to put a pinkie in with any of my animals to test this but surely the size of the colony will also play a big part. I have seen a dubia take up to a couple of days to be fully removed whilst poop is taken care of in hours.

It's definitely very interesting and something to bear in mind going forward.

The extra feeding you're doing is helping you there I'm sure. I have all of my master cultures in my daughters room. I've found a few scaber and a few ornatus that have escaped and made their way elsewhere in the house and a few that have gone from their culture to another species tub.

I agree the culture size plays a role for sure with p. scaber. When comparing the two morphs of scaber I have, the oranges devoured the rat quicker as the pics show. It is also a much much much more densely populated tub then the dalmatian tub. But, at the same time, I've got thousands of p. dilatatus in blue's cage. 99% of the time the 2" piece carrot or slice of sweet potato that I keep in there to supplement ends up thrown away untouched. Scaber may be safe with larger cham species but with the amount of time and money we put into this hobby I felt the caution needed to be out there on them.

I know Shawn Kramer used to keep p.scaber in with his pygmy chams but here is something he posted on them.


The video referenced, .

One of Eli's posts on them.

 

[SharpShooter]

I have a few more pinky rats in the freezer yet but once those are used up, no. This was really just to share as a caution of what that particular species is capable of vs some of the other species we use in our cages.



The extra feeding you're doing is helping you there I'm sure. I have all of my master cultures in my daughters room. I've found a few scaber and a few ornatus that have escaped and made their way elsewhere in the house and a few that have gone from their culture to another species tub.

I agree the culture size plays a role for sure with p. scaber. When comparing the two morphs of scaber I have, the oranges devoured the rat quicker as the pics show. It is also a much much much more densely populated tub then the dalmatian tub. But, at the same time, I've got thousands of p. dilatatus in blue's cage. 99% of the time the 2" piece carrot or slice of sweet potato that I keep in there to supplement ends up thrown away untouched. Scaber may be safe with larger cham species but with the amount of time and money we put into this hobby I felt the caution needed to be out there on them.

I know Shawn Kramer used to keep p.scaber in with his pygmy chams but here is something he posted on them.
View attachment 222909

The video referenced, .

One of Eli's posts on them.
View attachment 222910

Feeding wise I use Arcadia Custodian Fuel and they are on it really fast. This is really fascinating though, nice one!

 

[nightanole]

I need a cleaner crew that will eat the dead skin that is stuck to my poor tegu

Why didnt you hibernate this year, and why did you decide to do a full body shed when you know its low humidity season?????

 

[jamest0o0]

The flower pot millipedes are equally as good cleaners as isos, check them out. They will only eat dead and decaying matter.

 

[dshuld]

That sucks, I’d love to know how many ignore list I’m on!

@Decadancin is there a way you can pull that information? Just #s, don’t want names!

@dshuld Just went back through that thread and your right, I never replied to you directly. I assure you it wasn’t intentional. I did take some of your advice though in regards to the soil bin as I did use the organic soil from my veggie garden like you suggested!

Don’t think I’m actually following anyone on here either but I always paid close attention to your comments when I was first starting out, you were a big influence on me and I definitely still value your opinion! As you can imagine between work, kids, ju jitsu, a whole home renovation(that still isn’t done!), and that build I was pretty busy at that time, I’m sure I overlooked other comments as well!

Ok cool lol. I've been trying to think of what would've landed me on your list (though you don't have one lol). I've valued the info you've shared in the various threads as well. I can understand the being busy, that's part of why my daughter moved down now that we've got babies to keep up with along with the adults. I spent last weekend replacing the rear end of my wife's suv so she was a big help with keeping up with the chams then lol.

 

[dshuld]

The flower pot millipedes are equally as good cleaners as isos, check them out. They will only eat dead and decaying matter.

Scarlet right? Did you ever come to a conclusion on the bumble bee's? I still haven't gotten any to try out yet.

 

[jamest0o0]

Scarlet right? Did you ever come to a consensus on the bumble bee's? I still haven't gotten any to try out yet.

It's a species of subterranean millipede(not sure of the exact name). There are thousands in my enclosures that make up my best cleaners. I added a couple bumblees that I found awhile back, haven't seen them since. So many places to hide I can't imagine what I'll find when I tear the cage apart.

 

[dshuld]

It's a species of subterranean millipede(not sure of the exact name). There are thousands in my enclosures that make up my best cleaners. I added a couple bumblees that I found awhile back, haven't seen them since. So many places to hide I can't imagine what I'll find when I tear the cage apart.

Something like these? I'm at the time of year they start popping up outside occasionally. I've thought about collecting a few to see if I can breed them for a clean generation to use in the males cages with the p. dialatus and springtails.

 

[dshuld]

Feeding wise I use Arcadia Custodian Fuel and they are on it really fast. This is really fascinating though, nice one!

Gotcha, the master cultures are quick to the morning wood cubes too lol. I mix in a little of Matt's gutload before cooking it. those cubes are usually gone in a day, two at most depending on the size I put in there.

 

[Syreptyon]

It's a species of subterranean millipede(not sure of the exact name). There are thousands in my enclosures that make up my best cleaners. I added a couple bumblees that I found awhile back, haven't seen them since. So many places to hide I can't imagine what I'll find when I tear the cage apart.

Don't millipedes contain cyanide? I thought they were too poisonous to keep with chameleons! I've always been drawn to millis, but didn't think they were an option

 

[dshuld]

Don't millipedes contain cyanide? I thought they were too poisonous to keep with chameleons! I've always been drawn to millis, but didn't think they were an option

You may find this of some interest. http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B1088&title=Millipedes and Centipedes.

I have found the ones James was talking about coming from some of the plants I have washed and repotted in the non bioactive enclosures before. I always tossed them out the door before my previous convo with James before his absence started lol.