Gout concerns. Does the cham keeping anxiety ever go away?

[PlanetRemulak]

It’s been over a year since I got my first panther chameleon. During that time, I’ve experienced some pretty major challenges (a Coccidia infection, an immunocompromised chameleon, genetic defects). I was very recently on the wrong end of a health concern and ended up leaving the vet without the chameleon I came with. After an experience like that, I guess SOME paranoia is warranted, but now I’m not sure whether I can differentiate anxiety from being able to catch when something is actually amiss. I CAN say that most of what I was worried about was corrected with tweaks to husbandry and/or a trip to the vet.

i guess now I’m just wondering if anyone here has learned how to stop worrying about their chameleons all the freakin‘ time?

As for my final question: I can’t figure if my boy’s ankles look normal and are supposed to be that thick, or if they look swollen. He HAS been getting lots of different roaches lately, and I should probably switch to a different kind of feeder for a while.

 

[JacksJill]

I don't think the concern ever fully goes away but it does lessen as you become more familiar with their normal.

About the roaches, it is their diet that affects the chameleon. I feed a lot of roaches. My roaches are on a strict diet of vegetables and a little fruit. This way they get very little protein in their diet and harbor far less of the compound that leads to gout in the chameleons that eat them. I also feed smaller younger dubia rather than the bigger older ones that could have more of an accumulation. I have several older chameleons of a gout sensitive species and knock wood no cases of gout.

 

[crosscutts]

Nope you’ll never get over that worry . I think that’s what keeps me on my toes though . The more you become attached The more you’re gonna worry in my opinion .. they enter my mind at least two or three times during my workday . and the weather conditions help me spending more money than I should . I will agree with Jacksjill I feed a variety of roaches but not until they’ve had at least a week of all natural foods and supplements (bug burger) which I also feed to my super worms . which from what I’ve read lowers the chances of getting gout. at least from what I’ve read I know many breeders that use roaches exclusively

 

[PlanetRemulak]

I don't think the concern ever fully goes away but it does lessen as you become more familiar with their normal.

Right, that definitely makes sense. I guess I will just have to accept that this is as relaxed as I will ever be about keeping chameleons, lol.

About the roaches, it is their diet that affects the chameleon. I feed a lot of roaches. My roaches are on a strict diet of vegetables and a little fruit. This way they get very little protein in their diet and harbor far less of the compound that leads to gout in the chameleons that eat them. I also feed smaller younger dubia rather than the bigger older ones that could have more of an accumulation. I have several older chameleons of a gout sensitive species and knock wood no cases of gout.

Their diet would be what my problem is! I’ve been using a bit of dubia chow from dubiaroaches.com. It is far from the ONLY thing I use as gutload, but I have been using it in conjunction with my homemade gutload cubes, and Repashy Bug Burger as well. I do actually use an all natural, soy-free/molasses free horse feed as a general food source (when I’m not gutloading) called Crypto Aero. I attached a photo of the ingredients list
and nutritional values, if that’s of any interest. Do you use any Repashy Bug Burger at all, or does that tend to be pretty protein heavy as well..?

Thank you so much for your input!

 

[PlanetRemulak]

I think that’s what keeps me on my toes though. The more you become attached The more you’re gonna worry in my opinion ..

I could not agree with this more, I suppose that’s a silver lining to all the worry, in a way? You worry so much that you tend to become hyper vigilant and catch things right as they come up.

they enter my mind at least two or three times during my workday . and the weather conditions help me spending more money than I should .

Aw man I can relate to this so much, haha! You’re Cali based, right? The hot, DRY weather has had me spending so much on cooling options in hopes of avoiding asking my fiancé for a window AC. I’m lucky he agreed to more than one cham to begin with. He would NEVER go for a window unit. That week or so of 110+ weather we saw along a large swathe of CA was hellish.

I will agree with Jacksjill I feed a variety of roaches but not until they’ve had at least a week of all natural foods and supplements (bug burger) which I also feed to my super worms . which from what I’ve read lowers the chances of getting gout. at least from what I’ve read I know many breeders that use roaches exclusively

Do you feed Bug Burger to your roaches? I don’t have a single species of roach in my possession that doesn’t adore the stuff, but I really need to double check its nutritional values. If it’s protein heavy, it would probably be worth cutting back and feeding exclusively greens and vegetables instead. I‘ve always liked offering Bug Burger alongside greens and veggies, though.

I am so relieved to hear you mention breeders using roaches exclusively! I currently have 4 different types of colonies and that is primarily what I feed off to my chams. I went way overboard and got so many roaches because they’re such prolific breeders, and never running out of food has been invaluable. That’s not to say that I don’t EVER feed anything else, but having to avoid roaches for a good while would definitely be hard.

By the way, that you even think about your animals while you’re at work speaks volumes about your commitment to them. Keep on doing what you’re doing!

 

[crosscutts]

I could not agree with this more, I suppose that’s a silver lining to all the worry, in a way? You worry so much that you tend to become hyper vigilant and catch things right as they come up.


Aw man I can relate to this so much, haha! You’re Cali based, right? The hot, DRY weather has had me spending so much on cooling options in hopes of avoiding asking my fiancé for a window AC. I’m lucky he agreed to more than one cham to begin with. He would NEVER go for a window unit. That week or so of 110+ weather we saw along a large swathe of CA was hellish.


Do you feed Bug Burger to your roaches? I don’t have a single species of roach in my possession that doesn’t adore the stuff, but I really need to double check its nutritional values. If it’s protein heavy, it would probably be worth cutting back and feeding exclusively greens and vegetables instead. I‘ve always liked offering Bug Burger alongside greens and veggies, though.

I am so relieved to hear you mention breeders using roaches exclusively! I currently have 4 different types of colonies and that is primarily what I feed off to my chams. I went way overboard and got so many roaches because they’re such prolific breeders, and never running out of food has been invaluable. That’s not to say that I don’t EVER feed anything else, but having to avoid roaches for a good while would definitely be hard.

By the way, that you even think about your animals while you’re at work speaks volumes about your commitment to them. Keep on doing what you’re doing!

Yes I use the bug Burger So do a few of the breeders I know . I switch off between roaches several different species. including Hissers Orange Head Dubia and a couple other ones I don’t know the name of . i’ve got a place I get a variety pack from. I also use grasshoppers and crickets. yeah I’m a little obsessed right now i’m getting a camera system set up so I can watch temperatures in their activity while I’m at work. this is something I’ll do for the rest of my life I’m sure of it , since I’m getting close to retirement .. yes I am located in California central coast San Luis Obispo . We got a pretty hot too . I have central air conditioning in the house , so only temporary mornings for them to be outside then it’s back in the house on the weekends I get my roaches from Gold Coast roaches they have a pretty good variety and they’re Johnny on the spot with their customer service . I’ve had a lot of problems with dubia.com I won’t be using them again ..

 

[JacksJill]

Their diet would be what my problem is! I’ve been using a bit of dubia chow from dubiaroaches.com. It is far from the ONLY thing I use as gutload, but I have been using it in conjunction with my homemade gutload cubes, and Repashy Bug Burger as well. I do actually use an all natural, soy-free/molasses free horse feed as a general food source (when I’m not gutloading) called Crypto Aero. I attached a photo of the ingredients list
and nutritional values, if that’s of any interest. Do you use any Repashy Bug Burger at all, or does that tend to be pretty protein heavy as well..?

I only use my frozen gut load cubes and a bit of vegetable scraps from my kitchen and carrots. I don't recall the protein level of the dubia chow or bug burger. I would use that horse feed for crickets but not dubia etc. because alfalfa is high in protein as are the dried peas.

 

[dinomom]

Yes I use the bug Burger So do a few of the breeders I know . I switch off between roaches several different species. including Hissers Orange Head Dubia and a couple other ones I don’t know the name of . i’ve got a place I get a variety pack from. I also use grasshoppers and crickets. yeah I’m a little obsessed right now i’m getting a camera system set up so I can watch temperatures in their activity while I’m at work. this is something I’ll do for the rest of my life I’m sure of it , since I’m getting close to retirement .. yes I am located in California central coast San Luis Obispo . We got a pretty hot too . I have central air conditioning in the house , so only temporary mornings for them to be outside then it’s back in the house on the weekends I get my roaches from Gold Coast roaches they have a pretty good variety and they’re Johnny on the spot with their customer service . I’ve had a lot of problems with dubia.com I won’t be using them again ..

And...do you turn your AC down to 70 at night when it's 100 outside and catch hell from both signif other and power company?

If so that is normal LOL.

I think one of the main REASONS we keep chams is because we like a challenge. When you get the husbandry just right (moving target of course) and it reflects in their health, there is nothing more rewarding.

 

[crosscutts]

And...do you turn your AC down to 70 at night when it's 100 outside and catch hell from both signif other and power company?

If so that is normal LOL.

I think one of the main REASONS we keep chams is because we like a challenge. When you get the husbandry just right (moving target of course) and it reflects in their health, there is nothing more rewarding.

Yeah I battle with my wife I try to get it down to 65 at night . she’ll get up in the middle of the night and turn it off . She says there’s no reason for the house to be that cool in the middle of the night of course I usually catch her and turn it back on at the same temperature . I have my temp set 11 o’clock to 4 o’clock in the morning 65 after that it goes up to 75 when the lights come on it brings my cages up to 79 to 80 . But when the daytime temperatures hit 114 it’s definitely a challenge to keep them cool enough.. my August bill is normally around $60-$70 it was $1500 this year . yes the reward is worth it . nothing more rewarding than seeing an animal thrive that is 100% your responsibility.

 

[dinomom]

Yeah I battle with my wife I try to get it down to 65 at night . she’ll get up in the middle of the night and turn it off . She says there’s no reason for the house to be that cool in the middle of the night of course I usually catch her and turn it back on at the same temperature . I have my temp set 11 o’clock to 4 o’clock in the morning 65 after that it goes up to 75 when the lights come on it brings my cages up to 79 to 80 . But when the daytime temperatures hit 114 it’s definitely a challenge to keep them cool enough.. my August bill is normally around $60-$70 it was $1500 this year . yes the reward is worth it . nothing more rewarding than seeing an animal thrive that is 100% your responsibility.

OMG same this is cracking me up. Hubby watches TV at night in the middle of summer with a huge blanket, saying I am "freezing" him.

And yup my last bill was $1000. I also have to AC another room for Meller's, that was $300. Can't wait until it gets "cold" as I never once turn on on the heat in the winter so bills are nothing for those months. Here's a tip-I bought hubby an electric mattress pad to pre-heat the bed so he doesn't have to scream about getting into a cold bed since I refuse to turn on the heat. Before that it was a mighty struggle

 

[Tkrd69]

Yeah I battle with my wife I try to get it down to 65 at night . she’ll get up in the middle of the night and turn it off . She says there’s no reason for the house to be that cool in the middle of the night of course I usually catch her and turn it back on at the same temperature . I have my temp set 11 o’clock to 4 o’clock in the morning 65 after that it goes up to 75 when the lights come on it brings my cages up to 79 to 80 . But when the daytime temperatures hit 114 it’s definitely a challenge to keep them cool enough.. my August bill is normally around $60-$70 it was $1500 this year . yes the reward is worth it . nothing more rewarding than seeing an animal thrive that is 100% your responsibility.

But honey the cham needs the temperature drop

 

[crosscutts]

But honey the cham needs the temperature drop

Hey maybe you can tell her she doesn’t always listen to me!!!