Got my enclosure, LF panther Chams

[jamest0o0]

Because it dilutes the blood lines... So you get person A that breeds a nosy be to a nosy boraha and they disclose the cross. Person B buys one of those babies and either tries to pass it off as a pure bred dam or sire then you have a cross with diluted blood line. Or you end up with Person C that breeds the cross baby with an ambanja... if they are honest or not about the actual blood lines who knows. etc etc. then you have the what if Madagascar closes out exports to the US? What if we can not get pure blood lines and we have tons of crosses. Then you get the why is it ok to breed for our amusement to have this specific look and is that even ethical. Same things happens with dogs, cats etc. I get all sides of the conversation though.

To play devils advocate… Aren’t mixed dogs and cats often healthier than pure breds? Granted it means less transparency with what you’re getting. Also, if Madagascar was closed to the point nothing comes in, I think it’d eventually end up with mixed lines whether we wanted it to or not. That or very inbred Chams lol.

The ethical question could apply to many things in this hobby or any hobby involving animals I think . In the wild they could easily breed with each other and I’m sure it happens where different areas border each other. It’s not like it’s an unnatural and forced thing?

I’m not trying to be argumentative at all I appreciate the insight! I’m just not really up on this debate and sharing my initial opinion (which I’m happy to change because those are valid points)

 

[Beman]

To play devils advocate… Aren’t mixed dogs and cats often healthier than pure breds? Granted it means less transparency with what you’re getting. Also, if Madagascar was closed to the point nothing comes in, I think it’d eventually end up with mixed lines whether we wanted it to or not. That or very inbred Chams lol.

The ethical question could apply to many things in this hobby or any hobby involving animals I think . In the wild they could easily breed with each other and I’m sure it happens where different areas border each other. It’s not like it’s an unnatural and forced thing?

I’m not trying to be argumentative at all I appreciate the insight! I’m just not really up on this debate and sharing my initial opinion (which I’m happy to change because those are valid points)

Oh I could care less either way. LOL These are just some of the things I have heard every time this debate comes up. I think someone should buy what they want. We see issues all the time in veileds that have poor breeding and with them you can tell because their barring is not correct with the three vertical bars. Yet still people keep breeding those that have the default in coloring. Heck translucent veileds are not even a normal thing in the wild that was all human breeding.

I figure if they cross in captivity then exactly what you said there has to be areas in the wild where they have the potential to cross due to their locations.

In the end buy what you want since it is your baby you will be caring for and a new member to your family. Ya know. Beman was one of the most amazing Veileds with the best personality and he was a Petco baby. Had I been in the hobby prior to getting him I would have been told by everyone one not to get him since he was a petco baby. Heck after getting him I was told he would live a short and unhealthy life. Which as we know was not the case at all.

But I demand baby pics for whatever you get. I live vicariously through others for my cham fix now. lol

 

[jamest0o0]

Oh I could care less either way. LOL These are just some of the things I have heard every time this debate comes up. I think someone should buy what they want. We see issues all the time in veileds that have poor breeding and with them you can tell because their barring is not correct with the three vertical bars. Yet still people keep breeding those that have the default in coloring. Heck translucent veileds are not even a normal thing in the wild that was all human breeding.

I figure if they cross in captivity then exactly what you said there has to be areas in the wild where they have the potential to cross due to their locations.

In the end buy what you want since it is your baby you will be caring for and a new member to your family. Ya know. Beman was one of the most amazing Veileds with the best personality and he was a Petco baby. Had I been in the hobby prior to getting him I would have been told by everyone one not to get him since he was a petco baby. Heck after getting him I was told he would live a short and unhealthy life. Which as we know was not the case at all.

But I demand baby pics for whatever you get. I live vicariously through others for my cham fix now. lol

I gotcha! Yeah I mean, I could totally see if there were health risks associated with something. If the animal is at risk/suffers from something then I wouldn’t be okay with it. Just seems pretty harmless to me given that the breeder is transparent about the mixes.

I’m definitely anxious to get stuff up and going. Feels like there’s never time anymore so who knows how long it’ll take me

 

[JacksJill]

To play devils advocate… Aren’t mixed dogs and cats often healthier than pure breds?

Yes and no. Mutt dogs can be more robust than many purebreds. In dog breeding the selection for specific traits can also select for specific problems. Breeding with in a species out crosses of unrelated individuals might increase vigor. The problem with panthers is that differing locales may not be compatible in a similar way to horses and donkeys. You might not produce sterile offspring but you can't guarantee an increase in vigor and actually risk an incompatibility of traits if you cross to widely. There is a specific term for this. Bill Strand @DeremensisBlue made the argument for not crossing Hawaiian and Kenyan Yellow Crested Jackson's for this reason. The lines separated many generations ago in different environments and could possibly produce less thrifty offspring.

 

[jamest0o0]

Yes and no. Mutt dogs can be more robust than many purebreds. In dog breeding the selection for specific traits can also select for specific problems. Breeding with in a species out crosses of unrelated individuals might increase vigor. The problem with panthers is that differing locales may not be compatible in a similar way to horses and donkeys. You might not produce sterile offspring but you can't guarantee an increase in vigor and actually risk an incompatibility of traits if you cross to widely. There is a specific term for this. Bill Strand @DeremensisBlue made the argument for not crossing Hawaiian and Kenyan Yellow Crested Jackson's for this reason. The lines separated many generations ago in different environments and could possibly produce less thrifty offspring.

Thanks for the insight on that! I’m not really up on it, but wouldn’t bordering locales intermix at least? A simple google search seems to get mixed results on whether people think mutts are healthier or not, might just be a myth then.

Has anyone here kept mixed locales? Notice any health issues from it? I feel like we don’t see a lot.