Furcifer pardalis gestation period

[NORChameleons]

I thought we could use this thread as a place to discuss and share information about gestation periods for panther chameleons.


I have a 16 month old Nosy Mitsio female who has been stable at her gestation periods with egglaying 26-28 days after copulation. This last time she layed her eggs after a only 18 days gestation period.
She lays 27-32 eggs at the end of each cycle, and this last clutch was a normal with 29 eggs.
I have breed over 350 F.pardalis individuals and keep several males and females at all times, and I always keep a detailed tracking of mating history in all my females. I keep all chameleons in a stable environment in room dedicated to chameleons.
All females has always shown a stable cyclus from the first to the last clutch they lay, but this last female took me by surprice with her egglaying beeing way off the normal cycle, despite no change in temperature, food or light intervals.

I find this very facinating, and wonder if anyone else has experienced such a dramastic change in gestation period.

 

[CNorton]

That is interesting but I do not have any data to add because my experience with F. pardalis has been limited.


I do have a question though: do you find that if a young female is not mated during her first egg cycle that she may have future difficulties with egg binding or reproductive processes in general?

 

[NORChameleons]

That is interesting but I do not have any data to add because my experience with F. pardalis has been limited.


I do have a question though: do you find that if a young female is not mated during her first egg cycle that she may have future difficulties with egg binding or reproductive processes in general?

It is a long time since I let my females go without mating for the first receptive period prior to egglaying. My datas are therefor inconsistent for this type of behaviour.
But my experience from earlier, is that females wich make the first deposit of eggs without beeing mated in general shows less care for the eggs deposited than for females beeing mated at first receptive period.
The females who deposit infertile eggs, often do a less efficient effort of digging down the eggs, both in lenght of the tunnel, and also the hiding of the tunnel after deposit. Normal length of the fertile deposit tunnel is 7,5 inches, compared to infertile deposits wich is 5,9 in average.
I have not found it to be a consistency between egg binding and infertile deposits. Egg binding is in my experience only related to generally poor health of the female or the lack of an suitable egg laying site.

I have just startet a project monitoring the development of eggs in females from mating to deposit with xrays taken on a two day interval. I was surpriced to see how the development of the females next clutch of eggs develop along with the original clutch. When the original clutch of eggs are deposited, the next clutch of eggs are already 0,8mm (0,3inches) in width.
I think this can explaine how the female chameleon is able to produce a second fertile clutch without mating, but I have not gotten that far in concluding yet.

 

[NORChameleons]

The more I collect breeding data, the more i find these creatures facinating.
I have one female F.pardalis who was mated at 23.12.11 and laid her eggs, a beautiful clutch of 31 eggs at the 14.01.2012 after 22 days of gestation. A bit on the fast side of the range, but she was in top condition.

14 days later, at 28.01.2012 she made the normal shed.
She never reached a receptive period after this egglaying, like they normally do some 20 days after egglaying, but continued to stay in non-receptive colors.
Today, on the 19.02.2012 she laid a new clutch, 22 days after shedding.

This means the period from one egglaying to another, is at 36 days, without mating in between. A total of 58 days from the first mating to clutch number two is deposited without mating in between.

 

[kinyonga]

That old story about the female chameleons having to mate the first time they become receptive never goes away.

NORChameleons...when your chameleon produced the first clutch you mention on 14.01.2012 were all the eggs fertile? The following clutch?

 

[NORChameleons]

I mate all my females at first receptive periode as long as they match the wanted weight and size for a breeding female.
It is no problem to skip the first receptive periode if the female is not up to standards, sometimes she will produce infertile, but in 7/10 cases she will not produce any eggs until mated at the right size both in weight and lenght.

The female mentioned in my above post laid her first clutch last in March last year, witch was a fertile clutch after mating in first receptive periode.
All following clutches have been fertile, but this is the first time she has produced egg without mating in a cycle. It will take a week before I can tell if this clutch is fertile or not.

As mentioned above, I have startet a project of monitoring the development of egg by x-ray.
In all cases I have found that when a clutch of eggs is due for laying, there have been formed a new clutch in the upper back of the female. The eggs in the back forming the next clutch are 0,8mm in diameter when the first clutch of eggs are due. I think this is the clear evidence that a second clutch of fertile eggs can be produced from one mating, as the eggs are already in development during the mating.

Are you or anyone else farmiliar with females that have produced a third clutch of fertile eggs after a first initial mating? I have not experienced it myself so far.

 

[kinyonga]

I have had a female that produced a third fertile clutch from one mating. Can't remember if she did a fourth one or not.

Are the eggs in the back that are starting to form when the clutch is ready to be laid round or oval?

 

[NORChameleons]

I have had a female that produced a third fertile clutch from one mating. Can't remember if she did a fourth one or not.

Are the eggs in the back that are starting to form when the clutch is ready to be laid round or oval?

Now thats the kind of information I was hoping to produce from this thread.
Was it a female Furcifer pardalis? Did you keep track of the intervalls between each deposit, how many days in between, and how was the shedding in between?
This could be helpful in understanding the theory behind retaining gametes in egglaying chameleons and how it works on later clutches.

The eggs forming in the ova are at the stage of deposit of the first clutch, round and white. They do not get the oval form until they enter the oviduct.

 

[coldbloodedAL]

When you mate a female in her first receptive period, you say you only do so if she is of proper size and weight. How do you determine proper size and weight? Its seems as though most females are not fully grown by the time their first receptive period comes.

 

[kinyonga]

Yes...she was a panther chameleon. Her gestation was always about 30 days....it might have varied by a day or two sometimes. (My records are filed away at the moment since the house is being redecorated.) I never kept track of the shedding.

You said..."The eggs forming in the ova are at the stage of deposit of the first clutch, round and white. They do not get the oval form until they enter the oviduct"...I know that the eggs are not oval until they enter the oviduct...I was just wanting to make sure of what you were seeing!

 

[NORChameleons]

When you mate a female in her first receptive period, you say you only do so if she is of proper size and weight. How do you determine proper size and weight? Its seems as though most females are not fully grown by the time their first receptive period comes.

The adult lenght and weight of female F.pardalis is highly fluctuating, so my standard are based on my own keeping and breeding the species for several years. The standard I have found to work well is 80+ grams in weight, and 130mm i SVL.
In my own keeping, non of the females are fully grown when breed the first time. A gain in both weight and lenght is almost always present after the first mating from the mating-standard. I have not found any coherence in successfull keeping og breeding when putting of the first mating above the mentioned standard.
This standard is not a blueprint and may or may not work for other keepers, but a personal reference that I have found to work well.

I have personally only seen 3 wild mating pairs of F.pardalis at Lokobè Nathional park in Nosy Bè, and all females were less than 130mm in SVL. I did not have the proper equipment to measure the weight at that time.

 

[NORChameleons]

Yes...she was a panther chameleon. Her gestation was always about 30 days....it might have varied by a day or two sometimes. (My records are filed away at the moment since the house is being redecorated.) I never kept track of the shedding.

You said..."The eggs forming in the ova are at the stage of deposit of the first clutch, round and white. They do not get the oval form until they enter the oviduct"...I know that the eggs are not oval until they enter the oviduct...I was just wanting to make sure of what you were seeing!

The gestation period is very often consistent in one specific female, even though there are some variation. The interresting point would be to have track of the days after deposit, but prior to the gestation period.
If one has keept track of the gestation period in prior clutches with mating, then one can know the average number of days for one specific female.
If a female then is not mated for a number of clutches, it would be possible to find the average number of days after first clutch is deposited, to when the fertilization is occuring in the cycle between two clutches.

It would be great if you at some point could find the breeding data from your prior female with 3 or 4 fertile clutches from one mating. It would be very helpful in my future study of egg development in the species.

 

[blackhawk]

I've been thinking about this post and it makes me wonder if this could mean that females don't store sperm afterall.