first mouse tomorrow
- Thread starter jdcham
- Start date
ChameleonNerd
New Member
they are okay to feed ever now and again. i feed once every month or too. i feed mine Arctic Mice. they come dead, frozen, in little drug-like baggies. you just put them in the bag, in a cup of hot water, and they defrost in 10 minutes. then you just dangle them by the tail and hope your cham eats it
Elizadolots
New Member
Hi!
Do you have a particular reason for wanting to do this? I suspect you'll get a fair amount of negative feedback on it.
It can be done. There's not a lot of reason to do it though....if your chameleon were seriously underweight yet all over eating, then a pink might be a valuable fat bounce...
But as a regular, rotation in the diet sort of thing, I don't know that there's a positive reason to do it.
Do you have a particular reason for wanting to do this? I suspect you'll get a fair amount of negative feedback on it.
It can be done. There's not a lot of reason to do it though....if your chameleon were seriously underweight yet all over eating, then a pink might be a valuable fat bounce...
But as a regular, rotation in the diet sort of thing, I don't know that there's a positive reason to do it.
ChameleonNerd
New Member
well, if you are feeding one pinkie off a month, or every other month like i do, i'm sure it would be no harm. even if you just really wanna try it once to see if your cham will take it, i doubt it will do any harm.
but as i've learned through keeping a chameleon, as far as husbandry... "if it aint broke don't fix it" ...i started feeding off pinkies about once a month a long time ago, and that works for me, so i won't be changing that. if simple crickets and super worms work for your chameleon, i wouldn't change it. as long as you are gutloading properly, your chameleon is 98% definitely getting a healthy diet
but as i've learned through keeping a chameleon, as far as husbandry... "if it aint broke don't fix it" ...i started feeding off pinkies about once a month a long time ago, and that works for me, so i won't be changing that. if simple crickets and super worms work for your chameleon, i wouldn't change it. as long as you are gutloading properly, your chameleon is 98% definitely getting a healthy diet
ChameleonNerd
New Member
she's pretty, and looks healthy too. looks like you're doing a good job
ChameleonNerd
New Member
i honestly don't even know if pinkies even have bones. i think in that stage their "bones" are like the soft spots on human babies heads. cartilage i believe?
JonRich
New Member
Im pretty sure they have bones. lol
Like Cartilage is Cartilage and bone is bone. At that age their bones may not be as compacted and is probably easy to break down though.
I know snakes will break it down into a chalky milky powder
ChameleonNerd
New Member
well, pinkies are a bit harder for chams to break down than most insects, that i do know. it usually takes my girl a couple of days to poop after eating a mouse.. but when she poops after that... boy does she poop..
JonRich
New Member
Lol, I bet! Does she look like she struggles to go?
I thought about the whole mouse thing. But after some thought I figured I'd just stick to insects
ChameleonNerd
New Member
i haven't seen her go after a mouse. it's diameter isn't particularly large, it's just like twice the length as a normal chameleon turd lmfao
carol5208
Chameleon Enthusiast
what is their nutritional value I am curious and what is the purpose of feeding ones that are dead? Just wondering how you are enhancing your chameleons diet with this?
Miss Lily
Chameleon Enthusiast
Why do you want her to get huge? That is really not healthy for her! My first female was overfed (before I realised that I shouldn't be feeding her all that she would eat every day) and she was a big girl (200g AFTER laying an infertile clutch). Being 'huge' is really not good for females as it pushes them into cycling larger clutches which takes it's toll on their bodies and calcium levels, and ultimately shortens their lives. My girl was big, and as a result, she laid two large clutches of infertile eggs and died a month after the second clutch at just 18 months old. I learnt the hard way with my dear Lily, and if sharing my experience can help just one female to live a longer, healthier life, then her death won't be in vain.
My current female is 3 years old next month and so far has only laid one clutch of infertiles and that was 14 months ago now. So, I have proof that feeding them less and keeping them cooler IS better for them to live happier and longer lives.
laurie
Retired Moderator
Thanks Tiff, you just summed up what I wanted to say, but you are always nice about it. I want to ask if he was trying to kill his cham.
I agree with the above for sure! Huge is not at all a desirable trait for females and could jeopardize their health. To answer the question about pinky mice bones: their skeletal structure is primarily cartilage at that age. So pinky mice are not a good source of calcium because of that. What pinkies have a lot of is fat and protein. Too much protein in the diet can be very detrimental to their kidneys and/or lead to a very painful, incurable condition called gout. So you're giving a little fat bomb to your cham. You may get her to be huge, as in obese. If you want to increase her overall size give her the calcium and vitamins she needs to grow properly instead. But overly large females have large egg clutches (they don't need a male at all to lay eggs) and that can increase the chance of life threatening egg binding.
Here's an excellent article written by a vet specializing in chameleons specifically on this topic: Vertebrate Prey for Chameleons: Good or Bad?
Here's an excellent article written by a vet specializing in chameleons specifically on this topic: Vertebrate Prey for Chameleons: Good or Bad?
Zen Reptiles
Avid Member
Hmm is this the same community that goes 'wow' when they see the size of wild caught veileds?
Should they live as we see fit (colder temperatures, less food, confined to living spaces, longer life), or as nature sees fit? (higher temperatures, free range, more food, shorter life).
Ultimately that is up to the owner. A warm, well fed, short life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering. Likewise, a long, calorie restricted life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering.
However, I would agree that over-feeding is detrimental to their health....a healthy weight is fine, but obese or even just overweight is as bad in animals as it is in us. I read an interesting article recently about the common person thinks weight is largely genetic.....yet families with fat adults and fat kids, have fat pets! A fat dog is not a genetic trait from its owner.
Have a state of mind of health and nutrition, not weight gain and 'huge'. A pinky mouse should be offered once a month or less, with the majority of the diet being gutloaded insects in as much variety as possible.
With respects....Dr. Alfonso's blog post is about pinkies 1-3 times a week without providing much hard data (That is called 'sensationalism'). That would be VERY excessive considering the amount of time needed to digest just one pinky efficiently, provided ample heat, and you should pay heed to his warning. Anything in excess is bad.
There are many pictures available of chameleons eating birds (birds have beaks, oh and bones too, btw). They eat other chameleons, nails, teeth, bones and all. Other lizards. Certainly horn worms are not in their diet, nor silkworms, common crickets, mealworms, OR superworms. How do you say...let he without sin cast the first stone? Very little of what we provide our pets is natural.
Just make sure your temperatures are high enough to aid in digestion, and don't overdo it.
Should they live as we see fit (colder temperatures, less food, confined to living spaces, longer life), or as nature sees fit? (higher temperatures, free range, more food, shorter life).
Ultimately that is up to the owner. A warm, well fed, short life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering. Likewise, a long, calorie restricted life can be enjoyed so long as there isn't chronic suffering.
However, I would agree that over-feeding is detrimental to their health....a healthy weight is fine, but obese or even just overweight is as bad in animals as it is in us. I read an interesting article recently about the common person thinks weight is largely genetic.....yet families with fat adults and fat kids, have fat pets! A fat dog is not a genetic trait from its owner.
Have a state of mind of health and nutrition, not weight gain and 'huge'. A pinky mouse should be offered once a month or less, with the majority of the diet being gutloaded insects in as much variety as possible.
With respects....Dr. Alfonso's blog post is about pinkies 1-3 times a week without providing much hard data (That is called 'sensationalism'). That would be VERY excessive considering the amount of time needed to digest just one pinky efficiently, provided ample heat, and you should pay heed to his warning. Anything in excess is bad.
There are many pictures available of chameleons eating birds (birds have beaks, oh and bones too, btw). They eat other chameleons, nails, teeth, bones and all. Other lizards. Certainly horn worms are not in their diet, nor silkworms, common crickets, mealworms, OR superworms. How do you say...let he without sin cast the first stone? Very little of what we provide our pets is natural.
Just make sure your temperatures are high enough to aid in digestion, and don't overdo it.
Chameleons are insectivores, you can feed yours what you want. So yes everything you basically named would naturally fall under a chameleons diet "insects" . You don't see us feeding fish or birds or nails and beaks to chameleons.Yea some choose to feed lizards thats also their choice. Most good keepers would prefer to feed there animal something that has more positives then negatives in the results.
Just because something is possible does not mean it should be done. By all means if you feel like feeding MICE as OP stated then so be it. For me there is not benefit. He's been told the benefits and the negatives. As I read it you haven't shown any benefits rather than it falls unnaturally just like the bugs you named so its ok?
The sun is pretty natural and my chameleon enjoys that with some nice h20 and insects. I say mine enjoy a pretty natural life when the seasons right.
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