First ever F2 Jeweled Chameleon (Furcifer campani)

[NHenn]

We are super excited to announce the hatching of the very first F2 Jeweled Chameleon (Furcifer campani) here at Canvas. It has been a long journey working with this species and it has always been our goal from day one to produce a second generation in captivity completely removed from the wild. To our knowledge, there hasn't ever been a F2 produced in the US and most likely the world.

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[Virgil1972]

You need to call guinness up right now. I think this is more worthy than having long, gross fingernails.

 

[carol5208]

Congrats again! Wonderful accomplishment!

 

[Whyte Monkee]

You should be proud, congratulations!

 

[Andee]

OMG YAY!

From the video this baby looks really healthy, I am so excited to see if this little one starts eating right away.

 

[KeopiCat]

What a cutie! Congratulations on this huge accomplishment!

 

[GamerForce]

Sorry but what "F2" stand for
I'm new to the chameleon world but I'm curious

 

[KeopiCat]

Sorry but what "F2" stand for
I'm new to the chameleon world but I'm curious

Hi, F2 is a term that describes the generation the chameleons are. It's not just specific to chameleons though, it's a general term in genetics. It means the children of the children of a set of parents. In this case the parents were wild caught, who had babies (called F1 generation). Those babies of the WC parents then had babies, and those babies are labeled as the F2 generation. Hope this makes sense ^^

 

[Whyte Monkee]

Sorry but what "F2" stand for
I'm new to the chameleon world but I'm curious

@GamerForce

F2 means generation 2. This baby chameleon is the second generation from the wild.

Meaning the first pair were wild, the second pair was captive bred, this guy is the offspring from them.

All of the captive bred ones, are likely to be inbred as well.. F stands for Filial.

 

[GamerForce]

Ok that makes sense but I just read that I long term if they are from one clutch and they mate it will affect their genetic in bad way. So what is the point of doing it.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/f1-f2-f3-f4.26491/

 

[KeopiCat]

Ok that makes sense but I just read that I long term if they are from one clutch and they mate it will affect their genetic in bad way. So what is the point of doing it.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/f1-f2-f3-f4.26491/

To my understanding, the point is to produce chameleons for the market without having to constantly take chameleons out of the wild. Not only is this better for the environment, but the babies produced are healthy because they haven't been roughly handled by importers, they are less likely to have parasites and diseases, and they might become more docile because they have never been feral. This being said, I'm also curious how breeding in this manner affects the genetics. I do know that some breeders do make additions to the genetic pool by way of WCs after they feel they've bred their chameleons to each other to the right extent.

Please understand I'm not a breeder, nor an expert in any way, so take this explanation with a grain of salt ^^"

 

[Whyte Monkee]

Plus, imported chameleons are limited. Having captive bred populations makes them more available to the public. We haven't figured out how to breed many of them.

A lot of the time they inbreed because, for some reason those particular offspring were capable of breeding in captivity, and the breeder hopes it might be a genetic trait rather than luck. So the offspring from them might be just as easy to breed.

The further you go down the line of inbreeding the more likely you are to find chameleons that are genetically susceptible to health issues, but if you cross two different lines that have been inbred you are diversifying the gene pool, if you can breed wilds to them that is even better.

But it takes time, lots of trial and error with many clutches of eggs.

 

[Andee]

breeding is an issue as you get further into inbreeding. But most breeders do what would be inbreeding but is called "line breeding" and doesn't affect them as much as you'd expect as long as you do it intelligently. Honestly captive breeding is not a way to end the wild caught trade, we hope to take off the pressure of the wild caught trade with it. So red flagged animals can begin to hopefully come back with a bit of nursing of their environments. But it will never take off pressure like we'd want because people are more likely to buy wild caughts in my opinion because of the lower cost or the fact that people honestly do lie about where they get their animals.

 

[Brad]

Congrats and thanks for sharing!

love the video

 

[Fireborn]

Omg it's so itty bitty and adorable!

 

[Katacara]

Congratulations!!!! This is fantastic, and it's sssssoooooo cute!!!!!! Wonderful accomplishment, this was a historic day for all cham lovers!!!

 

[NHenn]

@GamerForce

F2 means generation 2. This baby chameleon is the second generation from the wild.

Meaning the first pair were wild, the second pair was captive bred, this guy is the offspring from them.

All of the captive bred ones, are likely to be inbred as well.. F stands for Filial.

You are correct, F2 is second Filial Generation. Technically to be considered F2 their needs to be relation between the clutches (ie line breeding) in order to officially be a filial generation. With that said, in the chameleon hobby line breeding or in breeding is something move consider to be frowned upon so a lot of breeders, including myself will stay away from doing so.

So, I'm calling these babies F2 because they are two generations removed from the wild but they are from 100% unrelated pairings. The ability to get a gravid WC female, get babies and then breed siblings would be extremely easy and not something I'm willing to do. I also didn't introduce a wild caught male into the captive bred population as in my opinion they would only be considered F1 again and would also make the process a lot easier. To achieve this little baby, I started with four unrelated WC adults which each produced two unrelated clutches of CB babies. I then raised those babies up to adult hood and bred them as unrelated pairs and now produced unrelated, second generation, two removed from wild offspring. Hence why it took just a little over four years to accomplish.

To date, I have four unrelated captive bred lines that I produced and one captive bred line from Kevin. If all goes well over the next year or two I hope to achieve F3 with all unrelated pairings!

 

[Andee]

You are correct, F2 is second Filial Generation. Technically to be considered F2 their needs to be relation between the clutches (ie line breeding) in order to officially be a filial generation. With that said, in the chameleon hobby line breeding or in breeding is something move consider to be frowned upon so a lot of breeders, including myself will stay away from doing so.

So, I'm calling these babies F2 because they are two generations removed from the wild but they are from 100% unrelated pairings. The ability to get a gravid WC female, get babies and then breed siblings would be extremely easy and not something I'm willing to do. I also didn't introduce a wild caught male into the captive bred population as in my opinion they would only be considered F1 again and would also make the process a lot easier. To achieve this little baby, I started with four unrelated WC adults which each produced two unrelated clutches of CB babies. I then raised those babies up to adult hood and bred them as unrelated pairs and now produced unrelated, second generation, two removed from wild offspring. Hence why it took just a little over four years to accomplish.

To date, I have four unrelated captive bred lines that I produced and one captive bred line from Kevin. If all goes well over the next year or two I hope to achieve F3 with all unrelated pairings!

How is the little one doing? I would assume it is eating by now?

 

[Whyte Monkee]

You are correct, F2 is second Filial Generation. Technically to be considered F2 their needs to be relation between the clutches (ie line breeding) in order to officially be a filial generation. With that said, in the chameleon hobby line breeding or in breeding is something move consider to be frowned upon so a lot of breeders, including myself will stay away from doing so.

So, I'm calling these babies F2 because they are two generations removed from the wild but they are from 100% unrelated pairings. The ability to get a gravid WC female, get babies and then breed siblings would be extremely easy and not something I'm willing to do. I also didn't introduce a wild caught male into the captive bred population as in my opinion they would only be considered F1 again and would also make the process a lot easier. To achieve this little baby, I started with four unrelated WC adults which each produced two unrelated clutches of CB babies. I then raised those babies up to adult hood and bred them as unrelated pairs and now produced unrelated, second generation, two removed from wild offspring. Hence why it took just a little over four years to accomplish.

To date, I have four unrelated captive bred lines that I produced and one captive bred line from Kevin. If all goes well over the next year or two I hope to achieve F3 with all unrelated pairings!

@NHenn

Well, to me, it seems that you are doing everything right.

Four unrelated captive bred lines is a respectable feat in itself.

I find myself learning new things all the time on here!

Thank you for elaborating on your experience and processes.

I hope that you will continue to update us while your breeding project progresses.

 

[Miss Lily]

Omg! Massive congratulations! What a cute little cham, totally adorable!