fewer eggs than expected - possibly retaining some?

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have a female panther, just under three years of age. Has never been bred, but has laid several clutches of infertile eggs. Usually, about 18-20 eggs. Yesterday she started digging, pretty much right on time as expected. All appeared to be going well. I left her to do her thing. Hours later I checked on her, carefuly so as not to be noticed, and she was up in the branches warming herself. She had filled the tunnel back in to her normal standards. I refilled her dipper. She drank.

But here's the thing. She still looks quite fat, not skinny as she normally would after laying. I dug up the eggs. Only 8. I suspect she's got more in her.

The laying bin is in her normal cage, so she has constant access to it during the time I am expecting laying action. I've left it in there. But she hasnt seemed inclined to start a new tunnel.

What are the chances there are still eggs in her, but she's not going to lay them without assistance? Would Oxytocin induce her to lay again? How much time do we have before this is no longer an option? My vet office is closed today.

I teach a critical technical class tomorrow, two classes actually, and there is no substitute. So my first option to get to a vet might be the emergency vet (no exotics knowledge) nearby tomorrow night. If I told them what to use and how much per gram to administer, assuming they have the appropriate drug, they'd probably do it. Or I might be able to get to my normal vet, who does have some experience, on Tuesday. I'd have to cancel several meetings and take two long taxi rides, and I'd have to beg to get in as I know there wont be open appointments last minute (she's very busy, usually takes a week or two to get in). I dont care about missing the meetings all that much, and I can probably cry into the phone and arrange an appointment through pitty.

Which is the best option? uninformed emergency vet tomorrow night or more knowledgable vet on Tuesday.
or - should I just leave her alone a bit longer? Maybe she's just fat and there are no more eggs.

Would an xray show this?

thanks for you thoughts
S
 
May lay more.....

I had a female panther that dug two holes and laid in each of them over several days. And she still had more in there. She spit the remaining ones out while on a branch in the egg laying trash can a day after that. She was very spazy about the whole thing. The next time she laid she did everything normal. X-Rays do show the eggs. The calcification shows up. Can you feel anything in there? I don't think it would hurt her to wait a couple of days to see the qualified vet. If you have to go you might as well go to one that can figure out the correct course of action. Best wishes for your girl :)
 
Thank you both for your feedback.
I dont know how to palpatate. She's not the type of chameleon one can easily handle. She is fiesty. I dont fancy upsetting her and loosing my fingers without having some idea what I'd be feeling for, how hard to press on her, where, etc.
 
Just feel around in front of her back legs if they are in there you will feel them along the bottom of the stomach. You do not have to press that hard at all, just a very light squeeze.
 
For some of the more feisty females, I wait until they are on a narrow limb and I distract them with my left hand, and slowly take my right hand and use my thumb and pointer finger. I come from beneath her and softly pinch her gut running from just before her vent and back legs all the way behind her front limbs. The sac that they hold the eggs in run almost the whole length of their body, so sometimes you really have to lightly "pinch" your way around. If you keep her distracted with your other hand it makes it much easier. Sometimes its super obvious, sometimes its harder to feel them, and sometimes you cant at all, so of course the best bet will be x rays, but this will give you an idea of how packed full she might be. She might not enjoy it, but I know she wont enjoy a vet visit so upsetting her is eminent.
 
If she has eggs in her still you will feel them. If there are no eggs her stomach will feel soft. If there are eggs you will feel liitle hard lumps in there. I would check her soon. My vet told me before the sooner after they lay the better they will respond to treatment if there are indeed eggs left in there and does need treatment.
 
This morning she was back ontop of the laying bin. Not digging yet at that time. But I was hopeful, so I left her alone. If she hasnt laid by the time I get home from work, I'll try giving her a little squeeze and see if I can feel anything. Either way I think I'll take her to the vet.
 
I couldnt feel anything. But I also have no idea what I was feeling for. The fact that she didnt bite me and a dull look to her told me the vet was the way to go. So we went to the emergency vet tonight. Regrettably, the vet on duty really had no experience with reptiles. She took x-rays, hoping maybe we could see if there were eggs still in her. But she admits that she's cant really tell for sure from the xray. Neither can I. Vet did not want to give oxitocin. Suggested increasing hydration and a calcium injection. I figured it couldnt hurt anyhow. So, we're back home. Its night, so I left the lights off until tomorrow. All we can do I guess is hope she lays if she has anything to lay. Will attempt to get to my normal vet tomorrow.

Feeling quite helpless :(
 
I hear digging!

I hear digging in her cage! Its drapped with a sheet so as not to disturb her, and I didnt peek to know for sure, but it sure sounds like she is digging another tunnel.

this is such a relief.

will keep you posted!
 
:(
Whatever she was doing in the sand box, it wasnt laying eggs. I heard scratching, I thought she was laying, but I pulled the laying bin out (she's in her branches, sleeping now) and there are no eggs. She's still "fat"

She was physicing me out. Emotional roller-coaster.

Will let you know what vet says tomorrow
 
Do you have any liquid calcium. An oral does of calcium may help her with muscle contractions. Its worked for me in the past and is a component of inducing labour. Vets will inject calcium subq along with oxytocin in tandem.
 
Do you have any liquid calcium. An oral does of calcium may help her with muscle contractions. Its worked for me in the past and is a component of inducing labour. Vets will inject calcium subq along with oxytocin in tandem.

She got subqutaneous Calcium injection at the emergency vet. She is now at my regular vets, where she will get another injection of calcium, this time along with oxytocin. She may also get oral calcium liquid later today. Vet has free reign to do whatever is needed.
 
Vet took more xrays, consulted with the other reptile vet there, palpatated.
They feel that the other eggs are not ready to be laid yet. Therefore the oxytocin is not the way to go. More calcium, ensure she stays hydrated, and then wait and see.
 
Let's hope for the best then. I never like having to play the 'wait and see' game.
At least it don't sound like her situation is critical.

Good luck with her
 
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