Female panther off food and lethargic

[kirsty]

Amber is roughly 7 months old and weighed in just now at 71.4grams, she's been really lethargic , lounging resting her head on her basking spot , sometimes not even moving to go to her usual nightime spot, her appetite has decreased , eating prob only one or two gut loaded locusts every two days , she went a good four days without anything at all. She's not displaying any gravid colours , temps are 22 to 23c and 85c in her basking spot. last weighed in April at 22.5g .Any explaination for this behaviour?? , we have got a laying bin in the bottom and put a curtain round her incase it was stress , she's not in a room with high usage .

 

[jannb]

How big is your laying bin? Is sounds like she might have eggs and may be egg bound. I'd get her to a good chameleon vet ASAP. My laying bin/egg laying blog is attached for you below.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[kirsty]

The layin bin is about 9"deep by 9" wide by 14" long filled with a mix of play sand and soil. she has never shown any interest , we had just play sand at first then changed to a mix , covered her for days on end ,she hasnt even touched the bin , i'd say she's been this way for roughly 3 weeks , before this she was active and ravenous for locusts , its gotten worse say in the last week or so , sorry if too much detail but her excrement used to be every other day and quite big, then it changed to a little every day and now the last time she went was tuesday so its been about 4 or 5 day's . Her eyes don't seem sunken and she's not gaping at the mouth

 

[kinyonga]

Can you please fill this out...
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful!

 

[kirsty]

[
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Ambilobe panther , female , been in our care since April23rd 2011Told she was about 4 or 5 months when we collected her so she must be 6 or 7 months now
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Handling infrequently , once a week when cleaning out
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?She eats crickets gut loaded with a mix of fish flakes , rabbit pellets, dry cat food. Only takes one or two of these at most. Locusts gut loaeded with lettuce, carrot, any fresh veg, fruit of the day, and a bran flake, she used to take four of five a time but now will only take one . Morio worms, gut loaded on an oat mix , again will only take one . So at the minute we feed her every other day , usually offer 4 locusts or 4 crickets with two or three worms , she will only take maybe one locust at most evey other day
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Dusting with exo terra multi vitamin powder, Exo terra calcium and D3, and an exo terra calcium on it's own. Schedule is once a week with vitamin and D3 then calcium on its own everytime
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?Have a dripper that i turn on in the am for an hour , at lunchtime for an hour and evening i see her drink the drips from this though not every time . I mist with a water sprayer 2 to 3 times a day to give the enclosure a good drench , sometime's i see her dring the drops and open her mouth for the spray
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? The recent droppings have been small in comparison with when she was eating regular , have become irregular but smooth not sloppy , shiny the urate being mostly white with an orange tip. lasyt defacated on Tuesday so 6 days ago. Not tested for parasites
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful. to others when trying to help you.
Amber has been very healthy regular with bowels and had a good appetite until recently

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?exo terr a glass sided , mesh lid 18"x18"x24"
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?Canopy exo terra compact flourescent canopy ONE 5.0 UVB and one 2.0UVB basking porcaline exo terra basking clamp light
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?average daytime ambient temperature between 22'c and 24'c with a basking spot of 85. Lowest overnight temp is 21'c measured by didgital thermometer and portable placed in
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?Humidity is 74% created by misting, and live plant . Measured by a hygrometer placed inside the enclosure
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?we have one live plant its a fiscus. when she moves into her big tank we will use an umbrella plant too
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?the cage is in my bedroom in a low traffic area , no fans or air vents the height in relation to the floor is about 1.5 meters
Location - Where are you geographically located?
located in derbyshire England

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.She appears lethargic, off her food , not opening her bowels as frequently as she used to . Maybe in a week only eating 2 crickets , two locusts and one morio worm. She weighed 22.5 grams in April aged 4 or 5 months , now weighs 71grams In june aged 6 of 7 months unsure if this is related to being egg bound or normal growth rate. she has stopped stalking her food , have left a locust in since last feed day which was Friday and its still in there now she shows no interest at all. Have a laying bin dimensions given above and have covered the glass sides for privacy .


Pictures are helpful![/QUOTE]

 

[seanUTD]

I didn't read all the way through because what caught my eye was the fish flakes and cat food... The VERY high fat content and animal proteins in that stuff may be a cause of a problem.... I'm not sure what that may do to the egg laying process but I'm sure it can't be good... You need a gutload high in calcium to get the preferred 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio neeed for good health... JMHO

 

[KTown333]

Did you make any changes to the cage to put the bin in? It looks like she doesnt have much space to climb around. Or maybe putting the bin in got her a bit confused or grumpy? I dont know just tryin to think of reasons...

 

[kirsty]

I didn't read all the way through because what caught my eye was the fish flakes and cat food... The VERY high fat content and animal proteins in that stuff may be a cause of a problem.... I'm not sure what that may do to the egg laying process but I'm sure it can't be good... You need a gutload high in calcium to get the preferred 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio neeed for good health... JMHO

Thanks for that we got an info sheet on gut loading and it suggested these
Ok so i'll research better gut load right away , we dont have any crickets at the min just locusts cos they're her fave

 

[kirsty]

Did you make any changes to the cage to put the bin in? It looks like she doesnt have much space to climb around. Or maybe putting the bin in got her a bit confused or grumpy? I dont know just tryin to think of reasons...

Yes we didnt have a laying bin in at first cos we were sold her as a male , so we had to research laying bins and get one in asap. Also we had exo terra vines ages ago and she tried to eat it so we got rid straight away. Any ideas on other vine type things to use to allow more climbing . Although at the min she just wants to stay in her basking spot

 

[kinyonga]

As was already said, cat food and fish food don't make good gutloads IMHO..they have prEformed vitamin A, D3 and other things in them that are not good for the chameleons. Rabbit pellets lack vitamin C. I have used a wide assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, etc.) to gutload/feed the crickets, locusts, roaches, etc. with.

Are her eyes open during the daytime?

Regarding supplements and lighting...this is what I do and why...
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[kirsty]

Yes many thanks for the reply , her eyes are open all day , they seem alert and well . I'll have a look at the sites and have a good read , i have been doing some reading on gutload all day