Fell While Preparing to Shed. Had one eye closed.

[Beman]

Although i'm sure there are some cases where fogging with babies won't hurt it and it will be fine.... but..... its a risk that i wouldn't take. But its not a huge risk because all chams are prone to RI and even adults can get it from fogging. but it sounds like its easier for babies to get ri's from fogging.

My advice is to wait for a few months. You mentioned that you do it in 30min bursts so it would probably be ok but the risk is still there. You have a choice.

Right but if your only fogging when the cage is cool there is no RI risk. That risk comes with improper temps. All in balance. Here is the pod cast Bill Strand did. @DeremensisBlue did this podcast and can much better explain. But I have never heard in anything I have listened to or read that babies should not be fogged. https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-89-naturalistic-hydration-for-chameleons/

Every keeper needs to obtain ALL the facts for their environment, species, and what they are wanting to accomplish. But I am a firm believer in getting the correct facts when making a decision and having the information to back up said decision. Rather then just telling someone no or yes. I can give multiple links for how to fog and how to set it up properly. This way they can make an informed decision based on qualified tried methods.

 

[nightanole]

huh my female veiled is lighter than 150 grams so i shouldnt fog her because of that risk?

I am not a fogging expert. I do not fog. I do know that when i was doing the research, you needed a "nebulizer" that created around 5 micron droplets. Basically ultrasonics that cost $50 was a no go, and you needed a warm mist or other variety. Chameleons are basically at that threshold were its "iffy".


If you can keep all your stuff clean, odds are ultrasonic misting is fine since its impossible to mist bacteria if its not their.

 

[Beman]

Im not going to dig up the data. But Basically there was a formula for droplet size vs animal lung size. It was found that once the reptile was smaller than 150 grams, the typical droplet size of the ultra sonic humidifier was too large. So instead o breathing in "humid air" its more like you are just hand spraying directly into their lungs. So the droplets are big enough to transport bacteria directly into their lungs.

Lets think about this. "Fogging" is just exploding water into droplets using sound. Its not creating humid air, that comes after the droplets evaporate and turn into water vapor, and by that time you cant "see" it. You are making 50 micron droplets (or the manufacture is lying) which is the limit for a 150g reptile(or odds are any creature).

Then this would mean that most chameleons being fogged would be getting sick and dying from fogging. Does not seem right to me considering the smaller species that do get night time fogging are all well under 150 grams.

 

[Beman]

I am not a fogging expert. I do not fog. I do know that when i was doing the research, you needed a "nebulizer" that created around 5 micron droplets. Basically ultrasonics that cost $50 was a no go, and you needed a warm mist or other variety. Chameleons are basically at that threshold were its "iffy".

I have learned it as we never should use a warm mist fogger or humidifier that it should always be cool mist. Warm mist then creates the same hot moisture that we are avoiding by not running it when lights are on because the cage is hot. In turn this would be an RI risk.

 

[nightanole]

Then this would mean that most chameleons being fogged would be getting sick and dying from fogging. Does not seem right to me considering the smaller species that do get night time fogging are all well under 150 grams.

Again if you can keep your stuff clean, its fine. its only an issue if you have growth in your system. If your system has the good ole pink growth, thats going to be going into the small lungs and deposited in the bronchial tubes.

Lets be honest, "most people" dont get sick from the pink slime in the humidifiers.

 

[Beman]

Again if you can keep your stuff clean, its fine. its only an issue if you have growth in your system. If your system has the good ole pink growth, thats going to be going into the small lungs and deposited in the bronchial tubes.

Lets be honest, "most people" dont get sick from the pink slime in the humidifiers.

Maybe that is it then your original post was taken out of context... When your meaning that the fogging unit has to be clean so as not to be producing bacteria that would in turn be inhaled by the chameleon.

@NashansCamos seemed to take it that babies should just never be fogged.

Proper cleaning is required no matter what set up someone creates for their chameleon. For someone to think they can just leave things dirty it a misunderstanding on their part and IMO a ticking time bomb.

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

Yeah so load that feeder up. Throw 2 dozen in. Part is that it is new to him. Part may be that he does not realize there are more in there. Took my baby a few days to really understand after loading it fully.

I tried loading it up this morning and it seems to help? He rushed to the feeder like normal and eventually took one (that I saw). He still seemed to prefer the couple RIGHT OUTSIDE THE SHOOTING GALLERY rather than the crickets inside. I'll keep trying this.

But, I do have another update. I came across deification from this morning and it seems to be runny/diarrhea, although hydrated. What could potentially be causing this?

I will note that the poop is smelly

Worried cham Dad :/

 

[nightanole]

Maybe that is it then your original post was taken out of context... When your meaning that the fogging unit has to be clean so as not to be producing bacteria that would in turn be inhaled by the chameleon.

@NashansCamos seemed to take it that babies should just never be fogged.

Proper cleaning is required no matter what set up someone creates for their chameleon. For someone to think they can just leave things dirty it a misunderstanding on their part and IMO a ticking time bomb.

Yup pretty sure it was taken out of context. Thats why i said you had to be careful. There is people here that clean their tubes daily. I get pink slime after a week, ive even posted my crud.

So to summarize, if you have an unclean fogger, you can get away with it longer with an adult vs a baby.

 

[Beman]

I tried loading it up this morning and it seems to help? He rushed to the feeder like normal and eventually took one (that I saw). He still seemed to prefer the couple RIGHT OUTSIDE THE SHOOTING GALLERY rather than the crickets inside. I'll keep trying this.

But, I do have another update. I came across deification from this morning and it seems to be runny/diarrhea, although hydrated. What could potentially be causing this?

Worried cham Dad :/

That is a very loose stool. Has he been eating hornworms or silkworms?

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

That is a very loose stool. Has he been eating hornworms or silkworms?

No, only crickets

 

[nightanole]

Maybe that is it then your original post was taken out of context... When your meaning that the fogging unit has to be clean so as not to be producing bacteria that would in turn be inhaled by the chameleon.

@NashansCamos seemed to take it that babies should just never be fogged.

Proper cleaning is required no matter what set up someone creates for their chameleon. For someone to think they can just leave things dirty it a misunderstanding on their part and IMO a ticking time bomb.

id also like to point out that ultrasonic humidifiers are also marketed as "air washers" because they remove 6-10micron and up particles out of the air. Its why i mentioned the fancy 5 micron and lower versions. The standard 50 micron will trap anything in the air and deposit it in the lungs if its not turned to vapor and evaporated. So a stock humidifier will trap all the dust/pollen in the air and deposit it on the floor where it evaporates. Its the same mechanism that gets white dust everywhere if you use mineral water in your humidifier

 

[Lil’ Sneak]

Oh, overloading it at first is a great idea! He seeeeems to notice there are more in there, but maybe not. Having that many should make them move around quite a bit. I'll try it first thing in the morning!

This worked for us! We put like 20 of them in there, he’ll leave 5-6 of them now and finish off the rest next day before we fill it again!

 

[Shauna_T]

Yes! It makes the feeders more active. It worked for my boy. Now he literally waits next to the feeder run every morning and picks them all off in the first hour.

They make some nice RO filters that hook up to your own plumbing and can be removed from it. Just say it is for your health if you have to but honestly they would never know. You will want RO or distilled for your fogger and the mister though so you don't deal with calcium build up from tap water..

Can they drink the ro water as well

 

[MissSkittles]

Can they drink the ro water as well

I use only RO water in my mist king, so yes.

 

[Shauna_T]

I use only RO water in my mist king, so yes.

Ok awesome thank you

 

[Shauna_T]

I use only RO water in my mist king, so yes.

What one of these systems would be better to get?

 

[MissSkittles]

What one of these systems would be better to get?View attachment 333134View attachment 333135

I’ve no idea. This is the one I use…easily attaches to the kitchen sink when I need to make water. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DOG63OY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1