Fat and water soluble vitamins

[Cait0420]

Just thought I'd share this. So I went to the vet yesterday due to what I thought was a respiratory infection and was given cottonseed oil with vit a&d, (I may still get antibiotics he sent my case to a vet in Calgary as he does with all herps) and was told that quite often the underlying cause of many things (reduced growth rate, increased mortality, gular or cervical edema, vertebral kinking, eyelid closure and oozing, loss of posture or muscular grip, hemipenal impaction or mbd) is lack of fat in the diet. You need fat for vitamins a, e, d, and k to be used in the body. You can spray veggie oil on what you gutload your crickets with to add some fat so that theese vitamins are able to be absorbed. The vet gave me a wonderful article about fat and vitamin A, and it's very interesting. Just thought I'd share this info hopeing maybe to help someone else out. I give one drop of the cottonseed oil a day for two weeks then every other day for a week after that then the vet will advise me on how often to use it.

 

[MelissaB]

Thank you for sharing that. I never really thought about our guys needing fat in their diets. It makes sense. I wonder if giving them the occasional wax worm or super worm would give them enough fat?

 

[Cait0420]

I told him I fed supers on occasion but he still thought lack of fat was the issue

 

[Cait0420]

I'm bringing them back in for baytril injections today

 

[MelissaB]

I hope your visit goes well and your chams feel better soon.

 

[christineacero]

So the vet decided he wanted to go ahead with antibiotics?

 

[Cait0420]

Yes he went ahead with the antibiotics but oral not injections, seems to be helping a little already

 

[Psychobunny]

that makes sense, but what abour saturated vs unsaturated fats?

What about brushing a little olive oil on the greens you feed your crickets?

Would that work?

 

[Cait0420]

Yes spraying veggie oil on the greens you feed your crickets will work perfectly

 

[BKFritz]

that makes sense, but what abour saturated vs unsaturated fats?

What about brushing a little olive oil on the greens you feed your crickets?

Would that work?

I was wondering this too. Can the healthy fat go IN the bug, instead of ON the bug, and which oil is the best?

What the OP says makes perfectly logical sense. We all need some amount of good fat to be healthy, I wish there were more research on the subject though.

 

[Cait0420]

There is a wonderful article I was given by my vet called chameleons and vitamin A, by roundtable journal of herpetelogical medicine & surgery vol. 13, nov 2 2003, I'm sure if you do a search it will turn up. In order to absorb the vit A, D, E,&K you need some fat. The article speaks of chams in the wild consuming smaller animals for fat so as their bodies can use the vitamins

 

[shmeenakoz]

I use flax in my dry gut load, which one of the best sources of unsat fat. Is this acceptable or should we still be lubing the greens?

 

[Cait0420]

I honestly am not sure about the flax, I will ask my vet when I call to update him tomorrow

 

[sandrachameleon]

chameleon's typically do not like having oil in their mouths. You should be able to provide all the necessary fat/vitamins through the feeder prey (assuming you provide enough variety) and gutloading - adding oil is not necessary

Yes, gutloading with seeds and nuts provides fat and many essential vitamins (of particular note are B vitamins)

 

[Cait0420]

chameleon's typically do not like having oil in their mouths. You should be able to provide all the necessary fat/vitamins through the feeder prey (assuming you provide enough variety) and gutloading - adding oil is not necessary

Yes, gutloading with seeds and nuts provides fat and many essential vitamins (of particular note are B vitamins)

Thank you I was not sure if the seeds in my new dry gutload were enough. I was not using seeds before so my chams need to get some more fat stores. And no they don't like the taste! I was told just to drop a Itsy bitsy drop onto their gums

 

[fluxlizard]

Seems like just putting a few feeders in the mix with a bit more fat would do the trick- mealworms for example, maybe waxworms occasionally. I don't use waxworms but I do use mealworms 1 meal per week and a multivitamin with vit a, a couple times per month...

I've been a bit surprised at the number of eye issues that pop up over and over here on the forums. I don't have them. Maybe my mealies are helping me out in that way...

 

[pigglett79]

I would think with a variety of feeders and well rounded gutloading you would get enough of what you need. I use a variety of seeds and nuts in my dry mix and also offer various feeders with differing nutritional content. Although I do have 1 panther with significant gular edema but I can't know for certain that it's not due to some congenital issue that will only be discovered upon necropsy given his normal blood work and fecal tests. My jackson however is doing amazing and our adopted panther has improved in our care with his lab abnormalities returning to normal.

I would hope we all evaluate our own situation before jumping in to adding oils to their diet without proper research and dose determination.

 

[Cait0420]

I would think with a variety of feeders and well rounded gutloading you would get enough of what you need. I use a variety of seeds and nuts in my dry mix and also offer various feeders with differing nutritional content. Although I do have 1 panther with significant gular edema but I can't know for certain that it's not due to some congenital issue that will only be discovered upon necropsy given his normal blood work and fecal tests. My jackson however is doing amazing and our adopted panther has improved in our care with his lab abnormalities returning to normal.

I would hope we all evaluate our own situation before jumping in to adding oils to their diet without proper research and dose determination.

I did not post this so everyone would start doing it without at least talking to their vet I just thought certain people who are having continual issues that they should look into it

 

[christineacero]

I think it's awesome that you're passing along the info you got from your vet! Bringing new things to the table gets everyone's gears turning...especially with something like gular edema, which no one seems to know the cause of. I'd love to see one of the forum vets give their input on this!

 

[BKFritz]

I think it's awesome that you're passing along the info you got from your vet! Bringing new things to the table gets everyone's gears turning...especially with something like gular edema, which no one seems to know the cause of. I'd love to see one of the forum vets give their input on this!

I agree! I don't think everyone's asking questions so they can immediately implement it into their chams diet. Knowledge is power and should issues arise having this tidbit in the back of our minds could come in handy!

Surely, someone should do the research or consult a knowledgable vet before doing anything that is out of the norm, but even the best herp vets are still learning and perhaps this is not something they have heard of. Many of the things we do to care for our critters was new news at one point in time I'm sure. It's not out of the question that something like this could be one of those things (not necessarily so, but we learn new things every day).

I would also love to hear what the forum vets have to say about it!