Facebook scares me

[SaintJimmy]

I have been on Facebook for a long time. Until recently I didn't join any reptile groups.

Maxxtu knows that a while ago I joined a couple groups and I have recently also been joining more and more groups for reptiles.

Chameleon groups SCARE ME.

Some people post pics of their MBD Cham and say "ain't he pretty he's doing just great" and everyone responds something along the lines of "he's gorgeous" or "beautiful". I feel bad when I have to step in when people ask "hey why are his arms bendy" and I feel like buzz killington/an a-hole when I tell them their chameleon is close to death, is not beautiful, is being kept in a tiny cage, no you should not hold it that way, take it to a vet it NEEDS HELP.

Or when people post pics of their new quad or Pygmy and ask "I got this how do I feed it, can I put three more in same cage" and people reply "I feed mine crickets up to 5" or "I've kept chams together for years same cage no problems" (same cage no problems my a$$ sorry if that's against the rules but seriously I needed to use the donkey word) and I have to step in and say "You have a Pygmy chameleon/quadricornis/Senegal chameleon/fischers/parsons and it NEEDS MORE THAN JUST "oh a cricket here and there and some mist".

Like wtf people. I am pissed right now because every time I log onto Facebook I spend at least 30 minutes posting care sheets, links to Cham forums, gutload info, MBD info, search for other peoples vets in the area for them, give them correct calcium schedules, tell them chams need more than just "throw stuff in there and walk away"

People these chams are not beardies or ball pythons.

People who seem to have a large collection of reptiles (and I notice it even more when the people tend to not name their pets) they think a chameleon is supposed to survive for like a year, oh his limbs are supposed to look like that, oh look my Cham is white he's so pretty (ummm death is imminent) oh my Cham threw up look, and seem to say stupid crap like that. They also seem to care less about the Cham itself and more about losing a part of their "cool reptile collection"

 

[ChrisZ]

+1 for your post! I noticed this aswell. Some people have a lack of knowlegde and will only see the beautifullness of the chameleon without the consequenses.

 

[stalincat]

I hear ya!
Just had a wee argument with someone on fb who was trying to prove that feeding wax worms every day is ok.. and not only ok, but she also gives them together with mealworms, superworms and hornworms..

and when you try to explain something to them, they get all offended and reference their almighty experience of half a year of keeping one male cham. I mean, people can **** right off, but I just feel really bad for those animals.

Nearly every day I see people posting about their 1-2 yo chams dying. Why am I not surprised..

 

[ChrisZ]

You know what's even worse.. people SELLING really sick animals and saying they are perfectly healthy, Always in the best care, had all the vitamines and minerals and using perfect light..

Happens a lot on some Dutch websites similar to Ebay...

 

[Psychobunny]

I think 90% of ppl who are on Facebook are under 18, some are way under 18!!
I suppose if kids can get the $$ for Ipods, Iphones, etc. they can buy chams as well to play with.

Also, about Facebook it's self, I have had bad experience and will never even log onto that site again.

My personal information was either sold by Facebook, or they are hacked.

I get spam daily from addys who use names of my "friends" to peddle everything from sex to insurance.

If you have never signed up, DONT!
Do not give your personal info to Facebook, it is clearly not secure (JMO)

 

[SaintJimmy]

+1 for your post! I noticed this aswell. Some people have a lack of knowlegde and will only see the beautifullness of the chameleon without the consequenses.

Sigh yeah. They want another cool pet and buy on impulse and then do not do research and go to facebook.

I hear ya!
Just had a wee argument with someone on fb who was trying to prove that feeding wax worms every day is ok.. and not only ok, but she also gives them together with mealworms, superworms and hornworms..

and when you try to explain something to them, they get all offended and reference their almighty experience of half a year of keeping one male cham. I mean, people can **** right off, but I just feel really bad for those animals.

Nearly every day I see people posting about their 1-2 yo chams dying. Why am I not surprised..

I think I saw that. I think wax worms are okay like maybe 3 times a week. I don't think like one a day maybe a small baby one would harm the cham, but every day a ton of wax worms is not good.

Horn worms are very soft actually and very hydrating so I don't see why those are bad. Supers aren't as bad as meal worms or wax worms though.

But it's the ignorance that kills me.

Especially the ones who have only had a cham for like a month and they're like all "ohhh i'm an expert" oh god.

You know what's even worse.. people SELLING really sick animals and saying they are perfectly healthy, Always in the best care, had all the vitamines and minerals and using perfect light..

Happens a lot on some Dutch websites similar to Ebay...

I'm not goin to name people, but there was a guy on a group I'm in. He kept getting banned and kept coming back. He only cared that the chams looked cool. Never named one of his pets. He called them products not animals.

I think 90% of ppl who are on Facebook are under 18, some are way under 18!!
I suppose if kids can get the $$ for Ipods, Iphones, etc. they can buy chams as well to play with.

Also, about Facebook it's self, I have had bad experience and will never even log onto that site again.

My personal information was either sold by Facebook, or they are hacked.

I get spam daily from addys who use names of my "friends" to peddle everything from sex to insurance.

If you have never signed up, DONT!
Do not give your personal info to Facebook, it is clearly not secure (JMO)

I'm less than 18 years old but it's ridiculous how stupid people can get. :\ Just ridiculous.

There are adults who play stupid mind games and refuse to research about their animals and just in general have a 6-year-old mentality.

 

[Psychobunny]

Sigh yeah. They want another cool pet and buy on impulse and then do not do research and go to facebook.



I think I saw that. I think wax worms are okay like maybe 3 times a week. I don't think like one a day maybe a small baby one would harm the cham, but every day a ton of wax worms is not good.

Horn worms are very soft actually and very hydrating so I don't see why those are bad. Supers aren't as bad as meal worms or wax worms though.

But it's the ignorance that kills me.

Especially the ones who have only had a cham for like a month and they're like all "ohhh i'm an expert" oh god.



I'm not goin to name people, but there was a guy on a group I'm in. He kept getting banned and kept coming back. He only cared that the chams looked cool. Never named one of his pets. He called them products not animals.



I'm less than 18 years old but it's ridiculous how stupid people can get. :\ Just ridiculous.

There are adults who play stupid mind games and refuse to research about their animals and just in general have a 6-year-old mentality.

Yes, but your smart, and take cham ownership seriously.

When I say 'kids', I mean kid-like behaviour, not just age

 

[Daybed]

Look at it this way you might actually get across to one of those people and make them realize what they are doing which makes it completely worth it.

 

[stalincat]

I think I saw that. I think wax worms are okay like maybe 3 times a week. I don't think like one a day maybe a small baby one would harm the cham, but every day a ton of wax worms is not good.

Horn worms are very soft actually and very hydrating so I don't see why those are bad. Supers aren't as bad as meal worms or wax worms though.

Nah, she was saying that she gives them all together as a mix. Getting wax, meal and morio every day.. this is defo too much!
Regardless, I would not give a wax per day. Chunks of fat with no particular benefit.

I think I gonna leave this fb group, it began to annoy me. everyone is a goddamn expert, but their animals keep dying

We don't have hornworms in the uk

 

[DanSB]

The issue isn't Facebook it is the people in the groups. You will find the same thing on other reptile forums, yahoo groups, or any place where uneducated pet owners congregate. It just so happens Facebook is the place most people use now.

The issue is point of sale education and support is sorely lacking in the industry.

I happen to enjoy Facebook. Many of the sponsors here and other reptile organizations have very active and interesting pages to follow. That said, I don't participate in any groups. Forums such as this fit that purpose much better. If I did I would spend my time directing people to forums with appropriate experts.

 

[szpond]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread - I'm just bursting to post this --


I have stayed away from reptile pages for the most part besides Chameleon Forums and similar. Chameleon breeders that are sponsors etc.

But has anyone seen INSTAGRAM?!?!

It really sickens me!! I feel like I'm being the chameleon police, but HELLO! Your chameleon's front arms are broken, jaw is unevenly set, casque is burned off, what do you expect me to do, just pass the photo!?

I have seen such horrible things. One time this man had his toddler, must have been a three year old, and a wild cham. It was a video, the toddler picked up the chameleon by the spine (it was hissing, very angry and thrashing) and the father was laughing about it. I can't stand it.

Just this last week, I pointed out mouth rot to two panther owners. One was aware, the other said "It's just how her face is, she is as healthy as ever"

But again, I do get a lot of people asking me for help with certain things, which is great. Usually I direct them to the forums. I have the care sheet main page as a link in my bio to push people to join the forums!!

 

[maxttu]

I've spent many hours on Instagram "policing". For the most part, my posts were ignored or deleted.

As dedicated keepers, all we can do is try and help. If our words carry no weight, then let it be. Don't come back to me a month or so later at the point of no return.

I have had some members on FB and Instagram listen to what I and others suggested and made changes for the better. I'm not perfect, but I do practice what I preach.

 

[ridgebax1]

I agree with DanSB it is the people. I am a nurse and when we write instructions to parents for discharge they are to be at an 8th grade reading level. This is the same for giving expert testimony (not that I have or will) but it is to be at this same level. I could go on quite a rant about how is this OK and why aren't we fixing it! My granddaughter is only 12 and wanted a lizard when she was 8 or 9. She did her own research before she even asked for it and had narrowed her choice down to either a bearded dragon or Chinese water dragon. She chose a beardie because of their temperment, which again she presented reasonable facts to back up her choice and this was when she was in third or fourth grade, I can't remember!

I was in an online program for my BSN and now am in a master's program and even at this level the grammer of some of my classmates is appalling. They either don't know or don't care. Anyway I could go on for days about this!

The bottom line is the care these animals are not getting. I just had to argue a bit with my son about the dragon as the care changes I was proposing were not the instructions from the petstore. Even well educated people feel that the petstore is a good resource for care information. That even though the salesperson may only be a high school student the company would provide them with the proper information to pass on to the customer and sadly it is not. I really don't think pet stores per se should even be allowed to sell live animals and not just the franchise ones either. We have a local pet store from which I used to get crickets and the smell when walking in is overwhelming! They are just in it to make money.

I say stay in the groups continue to pass on your knowledge and who knows who or what you may inspire. The ability to contact people around the world with a stroke of a key is something I never had growing up and it is such an opportunity to improve animal husbandry, I don't think it should be ignored!

I am now stepping off my soap-box

 

[SaintJimmy]

Yes, but your smart, and take cham ownership seriously.

When I say 'kids', I mean kid-like behaviour, not just age

That's what I mean too. Adults can be kids too... Hahaha. Think about the sterotypical 18-year-old-who-goes-and-buys-everything-due-to-new-freedom (dang that was long) guy. Goes and buys a new cham just because ooooh it's so cool my friends will be jealous. It dies days later and "oh well I'll get a new one".

A lot of people complain that they do not have cash for proper setups, and that's why they're keeping them in "fish" (no fish SHOULD be kept in a bowl) bowls, tiny tanks, cricket keepers, etc.

I'm not going to list many examples as I'd like but you get the idea. It's the little kid mentality of lose and replace and "who cares"

Look at it this way you might actually get across to one of those people and make them realize what they are doing which makes it completely worth it.

I do look at it that way. But I try and come across as gently correcting, but a lot of people apparently think I'm an a-hole and trying to dictate how their pet is. Ummm... just trying to help.

Nah, she was saying that she gives them all together as a mix. Getting wax, meal and morio every day.. this is defo too much!
Regardless, I would not give a wax per day. Chunks of fat with no particular benefit.

I think I gonna leave this fb group, it began to annoy me. everyone is a goddamn expert, but their animals keep dying

We don't have hornworms in the uk

What group is it? Chameleon lovers? Passion for chams? idk. But it's one of those general ones that everyone's in. EVERY DAY I see "my cham "karma" passed today RIP lived for a year" and ask why he probably died, sorry for loss, etc, and they say "well he had funny looking arms" -_- do cats arms look like U's? Or C's shapes? Maybe a cham's arms shouldn't look like that either.

It's just that they think it's "fine" to do stuff like overfeed wrong bugs and stuff that leads to chams death

The issue isn't Facebook it is the people in the groups. You will find the same thing on other reptile forums, yahoo groups, or any place where uneducated pet owners congregate. It just so happens Facebook is the place most people use now.

The issue is point of sale education and support is sorely lacking in the industry.

I happen to enjoy Facebook. Many of the sponsors here and other reptile organizations have very active and interesting pages to follow. That said, I don't participate in any groups. Forums such as this fit that purpose much better. If I did I would spend my time directing people to forums with appropriate experts.

I do love the facebook groups that are good too. (HoC, stuff like that) but it's the common "i just bought a cham 15 minutes ago it has no cage what to do?" people that kill it.

I would go ahead and leave every group right now (besides the cool pictures ones like maxxtus) if I chose to ignore the fact that I could help the improper care people.

Just the fact that maybe throwing a bit of advice out there could help makes me stay

I didn't have time to read the whole thread - I'm just bursting to post this --


I have stayed away from reptile pages for the most part besides Chameleon Forums and similar. Chameleon breeders that are sponsors etc.

But has anyone seen INSTAGRAM?!?!

It really sickens me!! I feel like I'm being the chameleon police, but HELLO! Your chameleon's front arms are broken, jaw is unevenly set, casque is burned off, what do you expect me to do, just pass the photo!?

I have seen such horrible things. One time this man had his toddler, must have been a three year old, and a wild cham. It was a video, the toddler picked up the chameleon by the spine (it was hissing, very angry and thrashing) and the father was laughing about it. I can't stand it.

Just this last week, I pointed out mouth rot to two panther owners. One was aware, the other said "It's just how her face is, she is as healthy as ever"

But again, I do get a lot of people asking me for help with certain things, which is great. Usually I direct them to the forums. I have the care sheet main page as a link in my bio to push people to join the forums!!

Wow... Is it appropriate to grab anything by the spine? What if he grabbed a little dog by the skin on its spine? He'd probably get yelled at.

I direct pretty much everyone in the facebook groups to cham forums eventually actually.

Instagram... I refuse to go there. It is sickening. Worse than facebook most of the times. It's full of teens around my age who are even less knowledgable than the adults

I've spent many hours on Instagram "policing". For the most part, my posts were ignored or deleted.

As dedicated keepers, all we can do is try and help. If our words carry no weight, then let it be. Don't come back to me a month or so later at the point of no return.

I have had some members on FB and Instagram listen to what I and others suggested and made changes for the better. I'm not perfect, but I do practice what I preach.

All we can do is try and help -- I agree with that. It is the only reason (like I said) I am staying in the fb groups

I agree with DanSB it is the people. I am a nurse and when we write instructions to parents for discharge they are to be at an 8th grade reading level. This is the same for giving expert testimony (not that I have or will) but it is to be at this same level. I could go on quite a rant about how is this OK and why aren't we fixing it! My granddaughter is only 12 and wanted a lizard when she was 8 or 9. She did her own research before she even asked for it and had narrowed her choice down to either a bearded dragon or Chinese water dragon. She chose a beardie because of their temperment, which again she presented reasonable facts to back up her choice and this was when she was in third or fourth grade, I can't remember!

I was in an online program for my BSN and now am in a master's program and even at this level the grammer of some of my classmates is appalling. They either don't know or don't care. Anyway I could go on for days about this!

The bottom line is the care these animals are not getting. I just had to argue a bit with my son about the dragon as the care changes I was proposing were not the instructions from the petstore. Even well educated people feel that the petstore is a good resource for care information. That even though the salesperson may only be a high school student the company would provide them with the proper information to pass on to the customer and sadly it is not. I really don't think pet stores per se should even be allowed to sell live animals and not just the franchise ones either. We have a local pet store from which I used to get crickets and the smell when walking in is overwhelming! They are just in it to make money.

I say stay in the groups continue to pass on your knowledge and who knows who or what you may inspire. The ability to contact people around the world with a stroke of a key is something I never had growing up and it is such an opportunity to improve animal husbandry, I don't think it should be ignored!

I am now stepping off my soap-box

It just seems instead of inspiring people I seem to come off as "you're doing it wrong nag nag nag" but really I am not saying that. I kindly say things like "I have noticed your chameleon might have MBD, have you considered taking him to the vet? MBD is very serious." It's in no way rude and people tighten their buttholes over it and fight with me. :\

 

[pssh]

The problem is, people don't like to think they can do anything wrong. The moment someone else even remotely suggests that they should maybe kinda think about doing something a little differently, they get defensive and shut out any kind of advice offered. It sucks, but that is how people are.

 

[junglefries]

I think 90% of ppl who are on Facebook are under 18, some are way under 18!!
I suppose if kids can get the $$ for Ipods, Iphones, etc. they can buy chams as well to play with.

Also, about Facebook it's self, I have had bad experience and will never even log onto that site again.

My personal information was either sold by Facebook, or they are hacked.

I get spam daily from addys who use names of my "friends" to peddle everything from sex to insurance.

If you have never signed up, DONT!
Do not give your personal info to Facebook, it is clearly not secure (JMO)

I fix a lot of pc's for friends. 99% of them are broken because of facebook or an email that shouldn't have been open. my son is autistic and 11yrs old. i let him surf the web without any restrictions. he never uses fb or email. Do you know how many times i fixed his pc? NONE!

 

[Mike Fisher]

The problem is, people don't like to think they can do anything wrong. The moment someone else even remotely suggests that they should maybe kinda think about doing something a little differently, they get defensive and shut out any kind of advice offered. It sucks, but that is how people are.

Hit the nail on the head there. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I fix a lot of pc's for friends. 99% of them are broken because of facebook or an email that shouldn't have been open. my son is autistic and 11yrs old. i let him surf the web without any restrictions. he never uses fb or email. Do you know how many times i fixed his pc? NONE!

What on facebook could even possibly lead to viruses? A phishing website? (misspelled facebook to faceboko, and it gives you fake page, enter your info and it rips you off etc)

Emails I can understand. People are just gullible and will usually believe the first source of info they hear from (PET STORES) ... usually leads to this

http://muchadoaboutchameleons.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-you-shouldnt-believe-what-pet.html

and people argue with me that their pet needs a red heat bulb and can live without calcium (which was what I thought at first until I joined here which was LUCKILY before I even had Monty a month)

The problem is, people don't like to think they can do anything wrong. The moment someone else even remotely suggests that they should maybe kinda think about doing something a little differently, they get defensive and shut out any kind of advice offered. It sucks, but that is how people are.

Hit the nail on the head there. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

pssh and mike fisher, exactly, I will give people info and they will not even consider it. They say "oh he might have only a LITTLE mbd so it's okay. he is fine" um no.

 

[Psychobunny]

I fix a lot of pc's for friends. 99% of them are broken because of facebook or an email that shouldn't have been open. my son is autistic and 11yrs old. i let him surf the web without any restrictions. he never uses fb or email. Do you know how many times i fixed his pc? NONE!

I hear you

Google "Facebook scams" if you want a eye-opener

 

[stalincat]

The problem is, people don't like to think they can do anything wrong. The moment someone else even remotely suggests that they should maybe kinda think about doing something a little differently, they get defensive and shut out any kind of advice offered. It sucks, but that is how people are.

internet and cars seem to turn people into complete a**holes