F. lateralis questions about being gravid and incubation

[windeindoiel]

Hi,

I recently got a pair of carpet chameleons. The female is wild caught, but still had her immature colors when I got her a couple months ago (developed adult colors a week later though), the male is CB and 8 months old. This will be my first time breeding chameleons, before these two I've only ever bred geckos.

About a month ago I put my pair together for the first time and they mated. After that the female seemed to get bigger and bigger but didn't turn gravid colors, she stayed her regular colors. I've seen her in the laybox a couple times, but every time she catches me looking at her she runs back into her tree. I've never noticed holes. Now she looks thinner (but still not as thin as the male) and seems less interested in going to her lay box. I haven't done any digging yet to see if there are eggs there because if she still will lay in the future I don't want to mess with anything.

So I have some questions.

If she didn't turn gravid colors is/was she even gravid in the first place?

What sort of medium should I use to incubate the eggs? For my geckos I use vermiculite, but every time I've had soft shelled eggs they always mold so I usually let those ones incubate in situ. Is that a vermiculite issue or am I doing something wrong with it? What works best for chameleons?

Do people here give their eggs a diapause, or just use a constant temp? I'm not sure which route I'm likely to have the most success with.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

So I have some questions.

If she didn't turn gravid colors is/was she even gravid in the first place?

What sort of medium should I use to incubate the eggs? For my geckos I use vermiculite, but every time I've had soft shelled eggs they always mold so I usually let those ones incubate in situ. Is that a vermiculite issue or am I doing something wrong with it? What works best for chameleons?

Do people here give their eggs a diapause, or just use a constant temp? I'm not sure which route I'm likely to have the most success with.

Thanks for all your help!

She should show gravid colors is she is pregnant. It is odd if you think she is carrying eggs and has normal coloration.

With my F. lateralis eggs I have found that vermiculite worked OK for me. Don't let that stop you, you could try other mediums.

I gave mine a diapasue however some well know breeders have hatch F. lateralis without a diapause.

Good Luck!

 

[fluxlizard]

Did you only allow them the single breeding then or did you re-introduce every day or two for multiple matings until she rejected him/showed gravid coloration? The latter is the best way to do chameleons.

Gravid colors are typically a response to males or other stress. To find out if the breeding "took", just show her your male and see.

But if the colors don't change, it doesn't necessarrily follow that she doesn't need to lay infertile eggs- she might if she's been bulking up.

If you are having problems with vermiculite- sounds like your medium is too moist possibly if you are taking eggs from the same females and incubating succesfully another way. Otherwise, could be your eggs are no good (possible nutritional deficiency if they appear fertile at laying). Chameleon eggs are more forgiving of moisture levels than gecko eggs. 6 or 7 parts medium to 3 or 4 parts water by weight works pretty good for me for most lizards. Usually with chams I've just used a hard squeeze on moist vermiculite to get as much water as possible out before putting it in the container.

It's been a while since I bred lateralis so maybe someone with more recent experience will come along, but I think I just kept them in a room with lower 70s possibly occasional upper 60s temp for the duration. I'd have to go look up in my notes and I'm lazy to do that when you can find it on the web somewhere. There is an excellent article on breeding them on chameleonnews.com somewhere...

 

[fluxlizard]

Oh yeah and for my lateralis I was using 1 part perlite to 1 part water by weight in those days- I do remember that. Vermiculite should work as well though. I've incubated lots of lizard eggs on both mediums and haven't found a difference in results (hatch rates).

 

[Dooley1]

I use vermiculite with 30 grams vermiculite/20 grams water ratio. As mentioned perlite can work also. I don't use a diapause. I just keep them at 70.

Not showing gravid coloration does not mean that she is not gravid. They can lay eggs that are fertile regardless. You can show her to the male to try and get her to display them.

Here are some babies that hatched a few days ago (F3 generation).

Female from another clutch (F5) hatched a month ago.

Mother of F5 clutch from tonight.

Mother of F3 clutch (back) with sister from tonight.

Female F3 just reaching sexual maturity and appearing to show gravid coloration despite never having bred. They are often misleading with their coloration.

Good luck

Kevin

 

[fluxlizard]

f5- wow that's awesome! Way to go!

 

[Dooley1]

Thanks Flux. I actually wrote the Chameleon News article. Ha. It's in serious need of updating.

Kevin

 

[windeindoiel]

Thanks for all the responses!

I forgot to mention that a couple weeks after they were together the first time I reintroduced the male into her tank, and she was having none of it. She turned all sorts of colors, hissed at him and tried to bite him. It all lasted about 2 minutes but I figured it'd be best to pull him at that point. In the future I'll have to add him multiple times in the beginning.

If I remove the lay box, or dig around in it while it's in the cage, will that upset her and make her not want to use it in the future or if she still has yet to lay them? I'm having a tough time judging if she's laid them yet. She seems a bit smaller than she was, but still bigger than I think she should be normally. Do they ever lay some and hold onto some?

F5 is pretty amazing!