Eye health - The SOLUTION!!! - Experienced keepers please share your WISDOM!!!

[Pitcard]

Just wanted to post an update on my girl I mentioned a page back.

After posting I stopped the Vit A drops and started using Repashy calcium plus only 3 times a week, with calcium in between. She seemed to get better in the following few weeks, but lately has been closing both eyes again. Since the initial post, she has shed, been pooping with white urates, and been eating.

I've been using saline on her eyes in the morning and evening just to be safe, and tonight I checked for a few symptoms of kidney problems (white build up in mouth, fluid around neck, swollen joints) and found nothing. I'm going to be putting her back on the vitamin A oil for a week. If that seems to help again, I'll be adding it into her schedule permanently.

I'll check back later with more updates.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Just wanted to post an update on my girl I mentioned a page back.

After posting I stopped the Vit A drops and started using Repashy calcium plus only 3 times a week, with calcium in between. She seemed to get better in the following few weeks, but lately has been closing both eyes again. Since the initial post, she has shed, been pooping with white urates, and been eating.

I've been using saline on her eyes in the morning and evening just to be safe, and tonight I checked for a few symptoms of kidney problems (white build up in mouth, fluid around neck, swollen joints) and found nothing. I'm going to be putting her back on the vitamin A oil for a week. If that seems to help again, I'll be adding it into her schedule permanently.

I'll check back later with more updates.

Thank you so much for the update! Please keep us posted!

 

[Pitcard]

I will, and thanks to you as well for sharing some great links.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

It is about time that we band together to combine experience and knowledge in order to help chameleons have beter lives in captivity!

 

[JGuinan007]

I was told long ago from an experienced breeder to use turtle drops, one drop in each eye once a month I haven't had issues since

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Some nice info to have!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...gglMAA&usg=AFQjCNGuM6--axwfTlh2dpb7r4Yun3Hb0g

 

[JGuinan007]

I'm not too sure they recommend this as good foods
Good Foods to Feed Chameleons

• Caterpillars
• Cicadas
• Cockroaches
• Crickets – no more than 50% of diet
• Earthworms
• Flies
• Grain beetles

• Grasshoppers
• Mealworms
• Pinkie mice
• Silkworms and silkmoths
• Walking sticks
• Wax moths
• Wax worms – high in fat, so feed sparingly

The pinkie mice I always heard were very bad for Chameleons

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Chameleons in nature eat a massive variety of things other than just bugs! They for instance will eat baby birds, other lizards and even other baby chameleons! When we talk about chameleons we need to keep in mind that there are many sizes and kinds! It would not be logical to think that the world's smallest chameleon species could or should eat something like a pinky mouse. On the other hand, the bigger guys like Parsons do eat more odd things like these.

I totally agree that things like pinky mice should not be part of a staple diet, even for Parsons. But, according to all the research i have done, the nutrients contained in the occasional pinky mouse fed to a large chameleon two or three times a year could prevent a vitamin A and D deficiency for instance. This statement is of course open for discussion!

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

As a young man, growing up in South Africa, I often watched chameleons eating wasps, bees and spiders! I mean, all te time! And never saw one die from it! One time we had a flap neck hang around a flowering shrub right outside our back door. He made it home while the flowers lasted (about three months). Bees, wasps and different flies were to be seen in the shrub as long as it was flowering. Spiders of different varieties quickly added them selfs to the mix because there was food to be had! All this chameleon had to do was sit there and eat his heart out! I am really not sure if he got stung or how many times! One thing I now for sure, was that he did not die that summer! Now, I am not encouraging anyone to go feed there babies these poisonous buggs! All I am saying is, we still have a lot to learn about chameleons!

 

[JGuinan007]

I love your Zef style

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

So, a question, how does one decide that it is time to use eye antibiotics? What are the signs and symptoms telling you it is time for you to take your chameleon to a veterinarian and ask for eye antibiotics! With humans we see redness and swelling of the tissue around the eyes! With chameleons it is more tricky, let's discus it!

 

[alphakenc]

Here is my 2secret ingredients to share with all u chameleon craze people.
"Ginger n Garlic" on the dry gutload.
The ancient herb and spice knowledge was passed on by the Ancient ancestors for more than 5000 years. Ginger was first discovered in south-east Asia, and it has been highly regarded for it’s healing properties as a universal medicine.
Garlic is rich in nutrients like Selenium, Quercetin and Vitamin C that helps treat eye infections and swellings.
Together in a very slight amount to make the Dry gutload will prevent lots eye problem.
U will have to observe ur chameleon's eyes daily,prevention is always better than the treatment afterwards,and these are my health chameleon eyes "weapons" and so far so good.

 

[alphakenc]

Now dont go crazy run to the supermarket n purchase all.....all u need is tiny little bit to mix with ur other gutload sparingly,u not trying to season n marinated ur chameleon for a cook meal

 

[kinyonga]

Just noticed this thread...wanted to comment. In all my years of keeping chameleons I've had very few eye issues. I don't give my chameleons any prEformed vitamin A. I use greens, veggies and a little bit of fruit to feed crickets and superworms. I use UVB lights and my chameleons rarely get outside.

I had a wild caught mellers come in with an eye problem due to a sinus issue. I had a dwarf Jackson's come in with an eye issue that was never diagnosed by the vet properly. I had a wild caught panther chameleon with an eye that swelled up like a balloon due to cancer. None of these was caused by a husband issue obviously. Other than these I don't recall any CB or wild caught having an eye issue...so I'm befuddled by all the chameleons that have them on this forum. I wish I had answers to the problems.

Although I'm sure some of the eye issues can be related to vitamin A, I don't believe that it's simply a vitamin A issue...I think it's often more complicated than that...maybe an imbalance between D3 for instance. If it was strictly a vitamin A issue why do so many of the chameleons given some vitamin A still have the issues continue after?

As was said...some eye issues suggested to be from dehydration are really from illness...and although it may be technically from not drinking/dehydration. Its the illness that is making the chameleon not drink or become dehydrated.

In still think sometimes it's the lights we use that can cause the eyes to be shut...but that should be easy to figure out by removing the light to see if it makes a difference.

Just my two cents worth...and I'm still befuddled!

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience! Your feedback is much appreciated!

Who knows what comes first dehydration or illness! Closed eyes because of feeling sick or getting sick because of eyes having issues and now it is not eating or drinking well!

I think there are cases where each is followed by the other! I believe that good husbandry is a balancing act! The more we know, the better we can do it!

It is undeniable that living creatures needs vitamins, minerals and all amino acids to be healthy! When I was a child people laughed at health nuts taking a bunch of extra vitamins! Now it is a well known fact that health can be improved with the right balance of nutrients! If this is true for humans it stands to reason that it is true for animals and plants too!

One day we will look back and smirk at what we use to BELIEVE was vital for chameleon health! When it comes to chameleon care, we are like infants trying to be good whale keepers! We have sooooo much to learn!!!

 

[kinyonga]

You sai..."One day we will look back and smirk at what we use to BELIEVE was vital for chameleon health! When it comes to chameleon care, we are like infants trying to be good whale keepers! We have sooooo much to learn!!!" ....couldn't have said it better. I've been keeping them since the mid 80's and I'm still no expert...and never will be!

 

[ahood]

My answer is Vitamin A deficiency. There isn't enough vitamin A in captive raised feeders in order to sustain the vitamin A needs of a chameleon. Even gutloaded feeders don't contain the vitamin A that is needed to sustain the health of a chameleon. I belive that the amount of vitamin A a chameleon needs is severely under estimated.
There was a bad study regarding Vitamin A and its effects on Chameleons that Vitamin A has virtually been stricken from a chameleons diet.
Vitamin A is the primary vitamin needed for healthy eyes in all animals including humans. There have been studies that Chameleons can not convert the Beta Carotene Vitamin A found in fruits (proformed vitamin A) into useable vitamin A (preformed Vitamin A) Most vitamin dusts contain only vitamin A from beta carotene and it is usually a small amount. And if a vitamin supplement does contain Preformed Vitamin A it is just minimal. However the fear of overdosing Vita A has left a major of chams severely deficient and it seems that it becomes prominate at around 9 months to a year of age.

Usually by the time we notice that our Chameleons has a vitamin A deficiency the illness has progressed to the point where it becomes critical. Chams are good at hiding their health issues. First it starts with dryness and light sensitivity in one eye. So the Cham starts rubbing its eye on branches in the cage because it feels irritated and itchy. A lot of times when this happens people will also notice that the chams tongue becomes weak and doesn't shoot out as far. This is because vitamin A deficiency can also mimic MBD and cause muscle weakness. Because the Cham is rubbing its eye on branches in its cage it further irritates the eye allowing bacteria to enter they eye which causes conjunctivitis. By now either the owner is putting over the counter eye drops made for humans into their chams eyes or they take it to the vet who promptly puts the Cham on antibiotics and eye ointment. Soon the owner probably notices their Cham isnt getting any better. Meanwhile the other eye might become infected because the bacteria infection has spread. Chances are by this time the Cham stops eating and drinking which leads to dehydration. By now the Cham starts to show other symptoms which is usually interpreted as MBD so the Cham is put on heavy doses of Calcium and D3 along with a different antibiotic. This eventually leads to starvation, kidney problems, renal failure and finally death. Most of this could have been prevented if the Cham got the correct amount of vitamin A in its diet to begin with. Unfortunately, very few veterinarians haven't concluded that when the Cham is treated for an eye infection it should also be supplemented with Preformed vitamin A in order to treat the infection and the underlying vitamin A deficiency. I've also read posts where the vet did prescribe a vitamin A supplement but the owner refused to give it because they know better then their vet due to the unfounded fear of vitamin A toxicity. Either way it's a simple solution that could have prevented the death of another Cham.

This is great information! I am struggling with this very thing right now. Please help! My Cham has reviewed a vitamin A injection and I have switched to Zoo Med's Reptivite which has Vitamin A in it, but does it contain enough? What specifically should I be giving him? Please let me know and I will do so immediately.

 

[ahood]

I use Vitamin A liquid gels that you can find in the vitamin isle of drugstores. I either inject it into a feeder or put a drop on the feeder and then feed it to my Cham.

How many drops is a safe amount to give per week?

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Most multivitamin supliments claim that the vitamin A in it is sufficient if you follow the directions. In my experience there are individual chameleons, just like individual humans who need higher amounts of certain vitamins on a frequent basis to be healthy! Chameleons who tend to struggle shedding and who tend towards having frequent infections (especially eye infections) in general do better with a tad extra vitamin A in their diet. In my experience Retinyl Palmitate is the pervert form of vitamin A for the job. When I get a new chameleon I monitor it for these health problem potentials. If any signs or symptoms present indicating a vitamin A deficiency I will give it a smudge of the Retinyl palmitate oil on the vack of one bug once per month. This usually takes care of the deficiency they arrived with to my care. Hope this helps!

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Skin health is also affected quite a bit by vitamin A levels in the body. Low vitamin A levels negatively affect shedding and also increases the risk free developing mouth rot!

So many people keep bringing up the fact that their chameleons are having eye problems so I thaught I would bump up this thread since it is so packed with good information on eye health.