Isn't the exo-terra just as cheap as those screen cages on LLL in the states?
It costs me the equivalent of $271 (R2200) to get those exo terra screen cages locally in SA...
Exo Terras - suitable for which chameleon species?
- Thread starter ladybird
- Start date
Isn't the exo-terra just as cheap as those screen cages on LLL in the states?
It costs me the equivalent of $271 (R2200) to get those exo terra screen cages locally in SA...
eisentrauti
Avid Member
Don' think so, but the Americanos here could answer it better
dodolah
Retired Moderator
no.. not myths. These concerns are real. Here is a clip I found on youtube
Pawing at glass (check at how her eyes are sunken during the 00:19) and, yes, i too believe she has MBD or have had an MBD before.
But, the statement "using glass cage will ALWAYS kill a chameleon" is a myth.
The dogmatic approach to chameleon keeping with disregard to the "unique" situation of the chameleon in question and the keepers' environment is a very foolish attitude to have.
yes, usage of glass is possible as long as one fine tune the enclosure to maintain the proper heat and humidity without sacrificing the air quality and the UVB effectiveness.
A glass enclosure requires a bit more fine tuning to make the environment inside ideal to old world chameleons, a fact that is often overlooked by new keepers.
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eisentrauti
Avid Member
lll sells the big one (24" 24" 28" for 87 dollars). And, almost all of my cages are from lll (except for the custom size one)
and, Benny, I have no idea either
I guess the same reason why people buy "Calvin Klein" over "Fruit of the looms."
but those from lll look much better / more professional but that's just my opinion
To the anti-glass people: Hole Europe use it and I think not with less success than the USA
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Granted I only watched a few seconds, but seems to me that animal is not pawing the glass so much as trying to climb the corner brace? In any case, the few seconds of attempting to climb the corner will not have harmed its feet.
thealissa
New Member
but those from lll look much better / more professional but that's just my opinion
To the anti-glass people: Hole Europe use it and I think not with less success than the USA
Well, glass will work. No one is saying that it's horrible--it's obviously being manufactured and bought specifically for chams. The reason many people won't settle for glass is because it traps in much of the humidity (which can be both good and bad) and also traps in old air and stagnant water. Chameleons need a significant amount of ventilation, and when a lot of water and poop get trapped in a glass enclosure, it makes for a breeding ground of bacteria.
I have seen the same behaviour from my cham when I placed her in a normal rubbermaid plastic bin (for her to lay eggs). she got so used to the fact that she was able to climb the walls in her normal cage, she naturally asumed she could climb those as well.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
no, not harming its feet. But, added stress from not being able to go through where she wants to go.. They do not recognized glass as barrier.
They tend to try to go through the glass. Hence, nose rubbing might occur on certain chameleons that do not acclimate well to captivity.
Again, not saying that glass is absolutely forbidden.
as long as the keeper know the disadvantages in keeping their chams in glass enclosure (trapped heat, trapped air, reflections, added stress) and try to minimize/ modify the enclosure, it could very well work fine.
TreelionsUK
New Member
I use the 30x30x30 and the 30x30x45 for rasing my babys,there really good
WelshOneEmma
New Member
I only watched a few seconds myself. I do often see this behaviour in Hugo, but usually when we walk past and he wants to come out. Some days he will sit on a perch right next to the glass and it's not an issue. I do worry about it, but then he tries to climb the walls sometimes so i figure he is trying to explore his territory. We usually see this behaviour when he is feeling particularly boisterous!
Pure
New Member
A small fan on top pointing up helps tremendously.
fan
As for drainage, you can drill the bottom or do what I did and just bust it out. Make a frame to fit, and install screen in the frame. My way also helped with ventilation. I would use smaller screen though.
screen frame
Installed in the Exo-Terra
fan
As for drainage, you can drill the bottom or do what I did and just bust it out. Make a frame to fit, and install screen in the frame. My way also helped with ventilation. I would use smaller screen though.
screen frame
Installed in the Exo-Terra
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Retained and more slowly released heat is a potential benefit.
Air is not "trapped" just because an enclosure used primarily solid surfaces. Air still moves, especially due to convection caused by heat bulb/basking spot. Simple ventilation holes or strips and screen top achieve this. solid walls avoid drafts. Glass does not necessarily cause a reflection, and certainly it does not necessarily cause stress. I know a number of USA people feel (because of their relative warm temps) that screen is the way to go, but there are many DOWNSIDES to screen, and the downsides to more solid enclosures are given more play that deserved.
Im not trying to be argumentative, just trying to provide balanced feedback.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
Same here. I'm not trying to be argumentative.. just to provide balanced feedback and clarify that indeed those concerns are very real and not a myth.
Saying that it is a myth downplay the imperative need to be cautious in addressing the problem comes with glass.
If you noticed what I said, Glass enclosure can indeed work IF one address the concerns come with the nature of glass.
I still believe reflection indeed cause stress on some level. I am not confident enough eliminating the possibility of this scenario.
I will still advise people about those downsides.
Do realize that people who said that glass is not a problem mostly DID something to the glass enclosure.. adding a ventilation strip and so on signifies a modification to the enclosure ensuring the air ventilation..
Surely, if you feel that the air in aquarium is suffice and not trapped, you would not add those ventilation strip.
You are indeed a good chameleon keeper; therefore, you realize the necessary modification is needed to be done.
Something that new keepers often neglect.
I am all for screen and modified glass enclosure.
Like I have said in all my post, glass can be used as long as people aware of the downside and made some adjustments.
Over and out
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I've never suggested an aquarium for a large chameleon. I thought we were talking about glass enclosures (not the same thing at all).
In any case, if we're going to list potential issues with glass, should we not then also list all the potential problems with screen cages? if we desire balance and truth?
In any case, if we're going to list potential issues with glass, should we not then also list all the potential problems with screen cages? if we desire balance and truth?
dodolah
Retired Moderator
I hope you are not missing my point here.
I am NOT disagreeing on the fact that glass can be used effectively as long as ventilation strips are used.
I also agree that I do not like the fact that people quickly judge and said screen cage is the only way to go..
I am, however, disagreeing on certain potential problems arise from using a glass cage as a "myth."
We cannot say for certain that clawing at the glass as if wanting to go out will not create stressful effect on chameleons.
I am afraid saying it like that will give people a green light to go ahead and use aquarium without modifying it to make the environment suitable to the chameleon.
The thing is in US, when a glass enclosure is mentioned, people often use aquarium with screen top with no other ventilation.
We cannot assume when people say "glass enclosure," it means glass cage that has ventilation strips on 2 sides. That is why if you see ALL my post replying to the people asking whether it is ok to use glass cage, I always mentioned yes, AS LONG AS you have ventilation strips and a screen top to ensure air circulation.
and as far as maintaining greater balance and ultimate truth goes
, feel free to mention the problem of using a screen cage.Actually, I can start:
Screen cages have the hardest time maintaining temperature and humidity.
But, most of that, can be done by adding more plants, humidifier, and higher wattage bulb.
At least in imho, it is much easier and probably cheaper doing so than drilling the glass (this is assuming that we use aquarium).
I know that Europe's and Canada's climate make glass becomes more beneficial to maintain proper temp and humidity.
I am not arguing with that fact.
But, AGAIN, in every single sample I saw, you guys ALWAYS ensure ventilation strips are available to tackle the stagnant air problem.
As I told you before, i do not believe in dogmatic approach of chameleon care.
There is always a way to circumvent the husbandry to fit what you want as long you are fully aware of what the chameleon needs.
But, no matter how you put it, I still DO NOT agree that having ONLY ONE screen side (at the top) is a good enough husbandry for old world chameleon no matter how the convection moves the air.
Simply said, would you advise people to put a panther chameleon/ veiled/ even jackson inside an all glass enclosure with only a screen top?
Somehow i know you would say no..
ADD one or more ventilation holes / strips (combined with the screen top) then you have air circulate well due to the chimney effect.
This is the type that I know can work.
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