Enclosure Help

[Arpretty]

Me again!

Those of you who saw my first post know I acquired my new buddy Spyro in a rescue situation. I'd love some feedback on my enclosure. I'm posting two pictures. Decided to go ahead and post how he came to me for comparison sake and so you can see what I'm working with. The first picture was sent to me by the previous owner before I got him. Once I saw the picture I said ohhhhh hell no...I'm getting this guy ASAP.

Second picture is what I've been able to do in about 4 days. Planning on moving him into my office once I get a piece of furniture for the cage to sit on. My friend told me they understand natural elevation and like to be up higher?

-One of my questions is, what do you put at the bottom of your cage? Any bedding or carpet??

 

[JacksJill]

Anything you put on the bottom of your enclosure needs to be disposable, like paper towels, or you have to be willing and able to wash it weekly as it's going to become a soggy pooped on mess. Leaving the bottom bare is the easiest solution for cleaning. Some people have a bioactive combination of plants, soil and beneficial bugs below their cages that they believe self cleans.

 

[Arpretty]

Makes sense. I guess it's weird for me to leave it bare down there...I kinda worry about him falling and hurting himself? Maybe it's silly.

Random note, I love your tagline (?) horses especially!

 

[JacksJill]

I'm guessing you are finding out how true it is of chameleon's.

 

[Arpretty]

Oh yeah. Was actually doing a mental comparison of horses vs. chameleons today & their care. My boyfriend says horses are easier. Hmmmmm

 

[jamest0o0]

I put soil on the bottom of the cage, set up for correct drainage obviously.

 

[Remkon]

I put soil on the bottom of the cage, set up for correct drainage obviously.

You gonna have soil* anyways if you use live plants so we kinda just make it 1 big pot, throw in isopods, worms, springtails etc to clean up and make sure it has proper drainage** so it doesnt become a swamp .

*Make sure the soil is unfertized (or biological) and has no big pieces of wood in it that he can accidentally ingest, mix in some playsand.

** i.e drainage layer of aquaclay and a hole where access water can drain out of the enclosure.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Based on the first pic you have defiantly saved this guys life, 100% improvement! Your friend is correct. When it comes to chams height = security.

I know you are not really asking for help with a particular problem but if you would fill out the below "How to ask for help" form it would really help us review your set up. Judging by just the pics it does look like you have it under control. I do have one question, what is the bowl on the floor for?

The more detail you provide, the better!
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[Arpretty]

Great, thanks!! I’ll fill this out to the best of my ability. PLEASE give me any pointers or suggestions!!

-The bowl on the bottom is what I’m currently using to catch the water from the dripper and misting. It is dumped and wiped out about every other day.

-I’m house/dog sitting for a coworker through Saturday, and acquired Spyro last Saturday (one week). What I’ve done for him so far (enclosure-wise) was mostly set up Saturday and Sunday, with some small adjustments when I've visited home. Literally cannot wait to be home and finalize everything and take my time. My boyfriend is doing Spyro's daily care (feeding, water, lighting schedule, minor cleaning) while I’m away. I felt like it was an emergency situation for him so I got him when I did because I figured my boyfriend and I can provide him with MUCH better care while I’m partially away than his previous owners did, ever! Lol. We have a friend who has a chameleon so he's been providing my boyfriend with advice, came over to show him some things, and has been a resource for questions.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled chameleon, male, 2 years old (they say). I have had him for one week.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? He has been in a terribly stressful situation. It was told to me by the previous owners that they hardly touched him. My plan for now is to do his routine care, sit by his cage sometimes and read or whatever (just be non-threatening), and then progress to handling attempts after about 2 weeks.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? So, Spyro is severely undernourished. Currently feeding him a mix of about 4 crickets and 2 super worms twice a day. He eats them all within a couple of minutes. I plan to cut down to a once a day feeding in the next couple of days. Crickets are gut-loaded with Fluker’s Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? What I have now is Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins. His morning feeding is lightly dusted with this daily.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I hooked up a dripper system to drip onto his leaves. This gets turned on 3 times a day for about a half hour and he gets misted for about 5 seconds 3-4 times a day. I use filtered water. We have seen him drink and he likes to sit under the dripper and get dripped on.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? I doubt he was ever tested for parasites. His first dropping I noticed was orange. They are now white (relatively solid) and dark brown (slightly moist….sorry lol)
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Oh boy. So. I was contacted by a friend who knew someone looking to find a new home for their chameleon. I said I was interested and contacted this person (child) and her parent. It was incredibly difficult to get much of any information from them. I did get them to send me one picture, which is the one I posted above. After seeing this and sending it to a friend of mine who has a chameleon, we decided it was important for me to take him in, and we’d work together to set him up. The information that was given to me: he is a male, 2 years old, don’t know what type of chameleon. Has hardly been touched, the girls aren’t interested in him. We feed him crickets 3 times a week. His light stays on day and night, we never turn it off (broken heat bulb when I acquired it). He has a water bowl. He likes to sit in it and poops in it. Someone told us they like moving water, so we put the little dripper in (notice it is sitting on the ground so it literally dripped right into the bowl--can you say missed the point?!).

When I picked him up: I am assuming the picture they sent me was from a while ago, as he is thicker in the picture. When I picked him up, he was deathly skinny, very shriveled/wrinkled, and a dark brown color. I had gone shopping prior to getting him, so I was able to get right to work when I brought him inside. Since that first evening, he’s like a totally different animal. It warms my heart to watch him. Boyfriend has also been sending video updates and pictures. The supplies the previous owners gave me included the cage, the light, that little fake plant in it, the dripper (which I have set up on top), and of course, Mr. Spyro himself.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? He came in a Zoo Med Repti Breeze Chameleon kit, it is all screen and is 16x16x30 I think??? that's what Petco's website says.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I am using the lamp that came with the chameleon kit they gave me…I am not home, so I can’t currently tell you all of the specifics. My boyfriend is Spyro’s main care taker this week. His schedule is 7:00 am to 8:00 pm (boyfriend leaves for work at 7:40 – we want to get timed lighting)
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Once again, boyfriend is caretaker this week. We currently have one thermometer that monitors his basking spot. This gets to be high 80’s-90 degrees during the day. Overnight is between 65-70 degrees.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? There is a humidity gauge attached to the cage. When I’ve been home, it’s usually around 70. What we’ve done so far: daily mistings, water dripper, towel wrapped around 2 sides of the cage (want to switch to plastic), and have a substrate at the bottom….I can’t tell you what it is right now, not being home. The guy at Petco said it's fine for chameleons and helpful for humidity...who knows?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No live plants
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Currently beside my fish tank, near our kitchen. Slightly high traffic, but it is only the two of us and we are pretty low-key (currently just my boyfriend, and he ain’t cooking while I’m away). When I get back, Spyro will be moved to my office. It is quieter and seems to stay warmer in there. He is currently directly on the floor. Will be buying a stand for him in the near future.
Location - Where are you geographically located? Lewes, DE

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

-Given the haste and strange circumstances of the situation, I just want to get him settled into a routine that adequately meets his needs. I’d love advice on:

-maintaining humidity in the enclosure

-resources for timed lights and misters

-feeding recommendations – especially considering his low weight (supplements, schedule)

-gradual handling

-anything else for a poor lil guy with some PTSD.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Anything you put on the bottom of your enclosure needs to be disposable, like paper towels, or you have to be willing and able to wash it weekly as it's going to become a soggy pooped on mess. Leaving the bottom bare is the easiest solution for cleaning. Some people have a bioactive combination of plants, soil and beneficial bugs below their cages that they believe self cleans.

Why do you say "they believe self cleans?"

 

[jamest0o0]

Why do you say "they believe self cleans?"

 

[JacksJill]

The poop is broken down by the cleaning crew. I'm not certain if the cleaners end the parasite life cycle or act as reservoirs for any parasite eggs or oocysts they eat. Yes, they visibly clean. I can't confirm or deny the other.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Crickets are gut-loaded with Fluker’s Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet

Ditch the cricket diet, its worthless. You can buy high quality gut load from many members of this site.

What I have now is Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins. His morning feeding is lightly dusted with this daily.

You need to dust his food every time he eats. You need two types of calcium and one multivitamin. Every feeding should be dusted with calcium powder that does not contain D3. Twice a month dust his food with a calcium powder that does have D3. Multivitamins should be given twice a month as well. I use:

 

[jamest0o0]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled chameleon, male, 2 years old (they say). I have had him for one week.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? He has been in a terribly stressful situation. It was told to me by the previous owners that they hardly touched him. My plan for now is to do his routine care, sit by his cage sometimes and read or whatever (just be non-threatening), and then progress to handling attempts after about 2 weeks.
Don't worry about handling or social interaction atm. He is better off left alone for now aside from basic husbandry. For now just think about getting him into optimal health.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? So, Spyro is severely undernourished. Currently feeding him a mix of about 4 crickets and 2 super worms twice a day. He eats them all within a couple of minutes. I plan to cut down to a once a day feeding in the next couple of days. Crickets are gut-loaded with Fluker’s Orange Cube Complete Cricket Diet
Flukers stuff is useless as a gutload. Look up a gutload list on here(organic veggies making up most, with some bee pollen, fruits, and seeds).
Feed him as much as he can eat each day until he returns to a normal weight.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? What I have now is Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins. His morning feeding is lightly dusted with this daily.
Stop this immediately, reptivite contains preformed vitamin A which can be toxic in large amounts. Dust feeders with this 1-2x a month. Dust lightly with plain phosphorus free, d3 free calcium every day. D3 with calcium 2x a month alternating with reptivite.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I hooked up a dripper system to drip onto his leaves. This gets turned on 3 times a day for about a half hour and he gets misted for about 5 seconds 3-4 times a day. I use filtered water. We have seen him drink and he likes to sit under the dripper and get dripped on.
Longer misting sessions. I prefer to start the day with a non stop 5-10 minute misting session when lights turn on. Followed by another heavy misting about an hour or so before lights out. Even with the dripper, these long mistings are necessary to maintain humidity, allow eye cleaning, and drinking. Mistking is amazing.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? I doubt he was ever tested for parasites. His first dropping I noticed was orange. They are now white (relatively solid) and dark brown (slightly moist….sorry lol)
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Oh boy. So. I was contacted by a friend who knew someone looking to find a new home for their chameleon. I said I was interested and contacted this person (child) and her parent. It was incredibly difficult to get much of any information from them. I did get them to send me one picture, which is the one I posted above. After seeing this and sending it to a friend of mine who has a chameleon, we decided it was important for me to take him in, and we’d work together to set him up. The information that was given to me: he is a male, 2 years old, don’t know what type of chameleon. Has hardly been touched, the girls aren’t interested in him. We feed him crickets 3 times a week. His light stays on day and night, we never turn it off (broken heat bulb when I acquired it). He has a water bowl. He likes to sit in it and poops in it. Someone told us they like moving water, so we put the little dripper in (notice it is sitting on the ground so it literally dripped right into the bowl--can you say missed the point?!).

When I picked him up: I am assuming the picture they sent me was from a while ago, as he is thicker in the picture. When I picked him up, he was deathly skinny, very shriveled/wrinkled, and a dark brown color. I had gone shopping prior to getting him, so I was able to get right to work when I brought him inside. Since that first evening, he’s like a totally different animal. It warms my heart to watch him. Boyfriend has also been sending video updates and pictures. The supplies the previous owners gave me included the cage, the light, that little fake plant in it, the dripper (which I have set up on top), and of course, Mr. Spyro himself.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? He came in a Zoo Med Repti Breeze Chameleon kit, it is all screen and is 16x16x30 I think??? that's what Petco's website says.
He will need a larger cage, but with everything else to worry about atm, I'd put it on the backburner until things have stabilized.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I am using the lamp that came with the chameleon kit they gave me…I am not home, so I can’t currently tell you all of the specifics. My boyfriend is Spyro’s main care taker this week. His schedule is 7:00 am to 8:00 pm (boyfriend leaves for work at 7:40 – we want to get timed lighting)
The lamp is likely that garbage dual dome they give you at the petstore. And is likely not producing uvb anymore. Get him lots of sun outside and look into a linear tube uvb bulb. Also a housebulb for basking around the low 90s.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Once again, boyfriend is caretaker this week. We currently have one thermometer that monitors his basking spot. This gets to be high 80’s-90 degrees during the day. Overnight is between 65-70 degrees.
Sounds good, just make sure all lights are off at night if you don't already know that.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? There is a humidity gauge attached to the cage. When I’ve been home, it’s usually around 70. What we’ve done so far: daily mistings, water dripper, towel wrapped around 2 sides of the cage (want to switch to plastic), and have a substrate at the bottom….I can’t tell you what it is right now, not being home. The guy at Petco said it's fine for chameleons and helpful for humidity...who knows?
Please ignore people at Petco. I rarely meet anyone at specialty stores that know about chams let alone Petco lol. No offense intended though, we've all made that mistake. For starters if the substrate is bark or something that looks like it could be choked on, remove it asap.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? No live plants
Look into pothos and ficus. Veileds should really have live plants
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Currently beside my fish tank, near our kitchen. Slightly high traffic, but it is only the two of us and we are pretty low-key (currently just my boyfriend, and he ain’t cooking while I’m away). When I get back, Spyro will be moved to my office. It is quieter and seems to stay warmer in there. He is currently directly on the floor. Will be buying a stand for him in the near future.
Try to get the basking spot just above eye level, the floor is a bad spot. They get stressed being stuck so close to the ground.
Location - Where are you geographically located? Lewes, DE

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

-Given the haste and strange circumstances of the situation, I just want to get him settled into a routine that adequately meets his needs. I’d love advice on:

-maintaining humidity in the enclosure

-resources for timed lights and misters
Mistking for the mister, target/walmart/etc for wall timers
-feeding recommendations – especially considering his low weight (supplements, schedule)
Mentioned supps above, Josh's frogs and many others have great variety online. Roaches, crickets, supers, silks, bsfl, hornworms, etc
-gradual handling
See above
-anything else for a poor lil guy withsome PTSD.
Give him as much peace as possible. It is normal to see chameleons seem to turn around and become healthy only to drop dead a day later. Everything should be approached carefully if you want him to live much longer.

 

[jamest0o0]

The poop is broken down by the cleaning crew. I'm not certain if the cleaners end the parasite life cycle or act as reservoirs for any parasite eggs or oocysts they eat. Yes, they visibly clean. I can't confirm or deny the other.

I can agree with this, I don't think any of us have this exact answer. As for bacterial concerns though I'm sure it does considering it's the same concept with fish tanks and it works there. JMO the same could be said that sterile set ups possibly weaken a chameleons immune system from lack of exposure and allow the growth of harmful bacteria/fungi/mold easier. Not saying either way, but both sides see it as the pros outweigh the cons. We all keep our animals well though so I'd say thay's what counts.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I am using the lamp that came with the chameleon kit they gave me

Judging by the original owners lack of knowledge I feel pretty safe saying they probably are not using UVB bulbs and if it did come with UBV bulbs they are probably the wrong type or past their 6mo lifespan. A good UVB light set up is one of the more important components of your chams enclosure. Your going to want to get something like this but wait for someone else to chime in this particular one might be a bit too powerful...

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I hooked up a dripper system to drip onto his leaves. This gets turned on 3 times a day for about a half hour and he gets misted for about 5 seconds 3-4 times a day. I use filtered water. We have seen him drink and he likes to sit under the dripper and get dripped on.

His dripper should be left on for most of the day, especially in the morning.

 

[Arpretty]

Sooo I think I've fallen in love with all of you. Lol! This kind of info is exactly what I need!!

 

[Arpretty]

You ROCK.

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I am using the lamp that came with the chameleon kit they gave me…I am not home, so I can’t currently tell you all of the specifics. My boyfriend is Spyro’s main care taker this week. His schedule is 7:00 am to 8:00 pm (boyfriend leaves for work at 7:40 – we want to get timed lighting)
The lamp is likely that garbage dual dome they give you at the petstore. And is likely not producing uvb anymore. Get him lots of sun outside and look into a linear tube uvb bulb. Also a housebulb for basking around the low 90s.
-Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Lol. I did immediately replace both bulbs. As far as outside, there's no way he's coming out on my hand yet. I do have a table out on my porch. I wonder if it would do him good to set his cage out there for part of the day? If so, would I leave his lights on or off? (Let's say the temp outside is in the 80's)

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Once again, boyfriend is caretaker this week. We currently have one thermometer that monitors his basking spot. This gets to be high 80’s-90 degrees during the day. Overnight is between 65-70 degrees.
Sounds good, just make sure all lights are off at night if you don't already know that.
-Lights are being turned off at night


Give him as much peace as possible. It is normal to see chameleons seem to turn around and become healthy only to drop dead a day later. Everything should be approached carefully if you want him to live much longer.[/QUOTE]
-Oh man. This is what I'm so afraid of it would be heartbreaking.

 

[JacksJill]

Spyro got a huge upgrade when you adopted him. The guys above gave you great advise. He's going to have a much better life now.

 

[Arpretty]

Hoping so!!!! It's funny, like I said...my boyfriend has been his caretaker this week. And he totally loves it! Just talked to him and he said "I got this, I'm doing good, I'm learning him." Makes me happy.