Early Eggs

fluxlizard

New Member
In most cases with panthers its not a good thing when the female drops eggs like that. Sorry to have to tell you that...hoping it isnt' true this time. I hope she's not heading to eggbinding.
I agree with the above very much. The clock is ticking on her once she starts dropping. She will either drop them all the next few days or get bound.

What you can do now on your own-

Cover the sides of the terrarium with dark paper to give her some privacy/security.

Do a quick test of the substrate and make sure it will hold a tunnel.

Add a light sprinkle of dry leaves to the surface, and maybe sprinkle some dirt from outside for scent- looks like your substrate is coco fiber maybe. Normally that might not be a problem, but at this point you want to give her every bit of instinctual cues and comforts.

If you can locate a vet try to get one to do a house call so she doesn't have to go through transport stress.
 

chameleontb83

New Member
I agree with the above very much. The clock is ticking on her once she starts dropping. She will either drop them all the next few days or get bound.

What you can do now on your own-

Cover the sides of the terrarium with dark paper to give her some privacy/security.

Do a quick test of the substrate and make sure it will hold a tunnel.

Add a light sprinkle of dry leaves to the surface, and maybe sprinkle some dirt from outside for scent- looks like your substrate is coco fiber maybe. Normally that might not be a problem, but at this point you want to give her every bit of instinctual cues and comforts.

If you can locate a vet try to get one to do a house call so she doesn't have to go through transport stress.
A house call would be nice, "if" they do house calls.
Most likely though, if she is not even going to the bottom to
dig, then she may not try at all, and will most likely need to
have the eggs extracted by the vet.
 

chamillion

Established Member
First, when you wake up tomorrow, schedule an appointment with
the nearest vet that deals with reptiles.

I definitely see that there is a problem with her. She really needs help.

There are a couple of problems here:

#1 -- I noticed her eyes look a little bit sunken in. In the video, her
eyes look fine. This is either caused by illness, or pain, or complications
with delivery. That is a true sign that your chameleon is feeling ill.

#2 -- She should not be sleeping during the day, especially with
lights on. There is definitely something wrong at this point, meaning
she is very ill. When a chameleon feels sick, they tend to sleep at
abnormal times of the day, especially involving pain, because the only
way they know how to deal with pain is to sleep. In this case, you
need to take this seriously since she is pregnant.

#3 -- The male "may" have had an infection and given the infection to
her via mating, which will make her ill, give her pain, and give her
muscular issues and keep her from laying eggs.

If she has mated with a male that has a disease or has had
issues with his stool or infections with his private area, you may not
know about it until it's too late......this is because if he has an infection,
which may be small enough that it doesn't bother him, he may have given
it to her, and she may now have an infection, which could effect her even
greater, which will result in her having problems with getting the eggs out.
The infection may be causing both pain and problems internally, which may
be preventing her from getting them out. The reason she may not be
pushing them out is that if she now has an internal infection, then it may
be affecting her muscles around her private area, and every time she may
get the urge to "birth" them out, it may be hurting her badly. She knows
whether or not she can push them out, because of what she feels, and
she may be feeling the pain of the possible infection. That's why she's not
digging. She knows there is something wrong and she cannot handle laying
all of them at once.

With all honesty and seriousness here, I would take her to the
vet. She's pregnant, and she may have complications with
egg delivery. They may have to extract the eggs, so that she will get
better and not die. The vet can give her an antibiotic to cure the
"possible" infection (if there is one, but it sounds like there is), but they
may not be able to give it to her until all the eggs are out. The eggs
could carry the infection in the blood stream and an antibiotic will not
be strong enough to get rid of it, so the eggs will likely have to be
extracted by the vet either way.

Her life "may" be at risk here. Do not put this off. She may be ill, "and"
having delivery complications, which combined, could kill her. The
complications may be causing her to not be able push them out, then
eventually, she will hold the eggs for too long, becoming egg-bound, and
she can die from that. This isn't something new, but it's not to be taken
lightly. This is a very crucial and sensative part of a female chameleon's
life, so don't sit around and think it won't happen to her, because it might.

It will be worth taking her to the vet. They can and will help her, and
possibly save her life.

Schedule an appointment tomorrow!






First I took pictures while she was sleeping in the night. I turned on the lights and took pictures. Think about that while you were sleeping someone turns on the lights. How does your eyes look like ? So I don't agree with you about eye issue.
In Turkey. There is no reptile vets. Because reptiles are illegal to sell or buy. It's very very bad. I'm very sad about this. So I can't take her to the vet.
I bought my male when he was 2 months old. I feed him by myself. I don't think any problems with my male.

My senses are saying me she is normal. She lays like this beacuse It is her first time. And they says one more thing. When I found eggs. There is her
poop near eggs. After second of three eggs again I found her poop. Maybe when she was defecating eggs could come with her poop. Maybe..
 

chameleontb83

New Member
First I took pictures while she was sleeping in the night. I turned on the lights and took pictures. Think about that while you were sleeping someone turns on the lights. How does your eyes look like ? So I don't agree with you about eye issue.
In Turkey. There is no reptile vets. Because reptiles are illegal to sell or buy. It's very very bad. I'm very sad about this. So I can't take her to the vet.
I bought my male when he was 2 months old. I feed him by myself. I don't think any problems with my male.

My senses are saying me she is normal. She lays like this beacuse It is her first time. And they says one more thing. When I found eggs. There is her
poop near eggs. After second of three eggs again I found her poop. Maybe when she was defecating eggs could come with her poop. Maybe..
Ok, I didn't know that you had turned on the lights at night. It's just
an observation based on the photo you posted. It is misleading, but
her eyes just look that way in that particular photo.

There may not be anything wrong with her eyes being sunken in, but
that doesn't mean she's not experiencing complications.

It's good that you have had your male since he was little, because
he should not have had an infection then, so that is good.

Unless you can travel to another land to seek a vet, there's not much
we can do here.

Can you take some new photos of her today and upload them for us?
If we can determine that she is not experiencing pain or any kind of
suffering, she may be ok, but we will need to see new photos of her.
That's why I said a vet would need to see her, because she could be
fine, and she may not be experiencing complications, and she just may
only be having a tough time with the eggs and dropping them for no
apparent reason at all, and she may need a week or two to finally get
them all out on her own.
 

pssh

Avid Member
I would suggest doing what fluxlizard recommended. It cant hurt right? Adding a few things just to be safe is a good thing. Even if you think she is fine, you never know. Maybe adding some fresh outside soil and some leaves/a plant will make her lay all her eggs at one time. Wouldnt you prefer that? Its better to spend an extra 10 minutes adding a few things to her laying bin than to be wrong and end up with an egg bound female that cannot get vet help because she is illegal.
 

chameleontb83

New Member
Good point, but.....

I would suggest doing what fluxlizard recommended. It cant hurt right? Adding a few things just to be safe is a good thing. Even if you think she is fine, you never know. Maybe adding some fresh outside soil and some leaves/a plant will make her lay all her eggs at one time. Wouldnt you prefer that? Its better to spend an extra 10 minutes adding a few things to her laying bin than to be wrong and end up with an egg bound female that cannot get vet help because she is illegal.
That's a good point. It's better to try and know whether it will
work or not, but honestly, it probably won't help. Females
naturally know when they need to go and lay their eggs. This
female's behavior is not normal, which is why it is in question.
I still need some new photos.
 

fluxlizard

New Member
Before I say farewell to this thread I'm just going to point out that from about 1993-1999 I bred many panther chameleons, and collected eggs from many others that were recently imported, producing a lot of eggs and babies. When I evaluate the female by the condition of the egg, it is because I've seen eggs from many females in many conditions of health (did a lot with recent imports in those days, many purchased gravid from importers). And I've seen many eggs that did not hatch and many that did.

Ignore my experience and advice if you want- it's up to you but I think it's foolish not to have tried some of my suggestions up to this point when you don't have vet care or any other alternative better than scratching your head.

I don't think there is much anyone here can ad without a vet exam.

If my advice was not helpful, and you can't get to a vet, or unless someone more knowledgable here comes along with some insight I'll learn from as well (which is quite possible), probably nothing is going to help- just have to cross your fingers.

There could indeed be something wrong that a vet could determine and save her if she got help early enough- abnormal egg formation that can't pass or something for example.

But I doubt it- the eggs that have been dropped look very good to me. And your nesting situation looks not good to me. No privacy, glass sides on the dirt which are not covered, so no privacy when she digs- she would most likely dig against something like the glass side-, bed-a-beast or some other unnatural substrate, no cover, substrate looks pretty shallow too- only maybe 5" at most.

You came asking what was wrong with your female- personally I think I've probably answered it. But if not, and if you can't get to a vet, she's probably not going to make it anyway. You may have waited too long at this point anyway, but it won't hurt to try my suggestions.

Releasing the bowels is pretty common prior to dropping eggs like that. The muscle contractions working in a last ditch effort to release the eggs and save the mother squeeze everything in the region. Humans often pee just prior to giving birth. It can't be stopped.

Nesting is instinctive- some females do have to figure things out somewhat, but it is essential to the survival of the species and comes pre-programmed for the greater part. What your female is going through is not "normal" even if she is young and even if it is her first time.

Lastly- hope you didn't toss the eggs- they looked good.

If something does finally happen and your female dies- you might be able to still save some of the eggs by carefully opening her and removing them and incubating them. Try to keep them as clean as you can in the process- but don't wipe them down- that may destroy a protective layer on the shell.

Kind of morbid, but it works sometimes and then at least she didn't die without passing her life on to her babies.
 
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chameleontb83

New Member
Before I say farewell to this thread I'm just going to point out that from about 1993-1999 I bred many panther chameleons, and collected eggs from many others that were recently imported, producing a lot of eggs and babies. When I evaluate the female by the condition of the egg, it is because I've seen eggs from many females in many conditions of health (did a lot with recent imports in those days, many purchased gravid from importers). And I've seen many eggs that did not hatch and many that did.

Ignore my experience and advice if you want- it's up to you but I think it's foolish not to have tried some of my suggestions up to this point when you don't have vet care or any other alternative better than scratching your head.

I don't think there is much anyone here can ad without a vet exam.

If my advice was not helpful, and you can't get to a vet, or unless someone more knowledgable here comes along with some insight I'll learn from as well (which is quite possible), probably nothing is going to help- just have to cross your fingers.

There could indeed be something wrong that a vet could determine and save her if she got help early enough- abnormal egg formation that can't pass or something for example.

But I doubt it- the eggs that have been dropped look very good to me. And your nesting situation looks not good to me. No privacy, glass sides on the dirt which are not covered, so no privacy when she digs- she would most likely dig against something like the glass side-, bed-a-beast or some other unnatural substrate, no cover, substrate looks pretty shallow too- only maybe 5" at most.

You came asking what was wrong with your female- personally I think I've probably answered it. But if not, and if you can't get to a vet, she's probably not going to make it anyway. You may have waited too long at this point anyway, but it won't hurt to try my suggestions.

Releasing the bowels is pretty common prior to dropping eggs like that. The muscle contractions working in a last ditch effort to release the eggs and save the mother squeeze everything in the region. Humans often pee just prior to giving birth. It can't be stopped.

Nesting is instinctive- some females do have to figure things out somewhat, but it is essential to the survival of the species and comes pre-programmed for the greater part. What your female is going through is not "normal" even if she is young and even if it is her first time.

Lastly- hope you didn't toss the eggs- they looked good.

If something does finally happen and your female dies- you might be able to still save some of the eggs by carefully opening her and removing them and incubating them. Try to keep them as clean as you can in the process- but don't wipe them down- that may destroy a protective layer on the shell.

Kind of morbid, but it works sometimes and then at least she didn't die without passing her life on to her babies.
I have basically said these things already.
You also stated some good suggestions. ;)
 

chameleontb83

New Member
Eggs look good to me too. She should be in a laying bucket not a cage.
I agree, that is basically what I suggested. She needs a seperate
large container, out of sight, with full privacy, so she will be
comfortable enough to lay the eggs.............." if " she will.
I hope she will.
 

chameleontb83

New Member
Great pictures :)

This is very helpful. Allow me to take some time to look at these carefully.
I will try to help the best I can......
So far she looks really good.
Make sure for now, that you give her more water. If you have given her
a lot, give her even more water to drink anyway.
 

chamillion

Established Member
:)) I handle her today after 1-2 months later. I really love her. So sweety. I don't want to loose her :( I checked the soil. I dig a bit and I saw water in deeper. It is too wet. And after 6 eggs she act much more. She goes bottom of the cage. I saw corners have played much than middle. She begins to dig from corners I think
 

chameleontb83

New Member
That's great! She's ready to lay. :)

** Prepare a large container for her in a room where
she cannot see anyone.

** Use sand. It's easier to dig with, and holds its
shape better than soil, and is easier to extract the eggs.

** Fill most of the bucket or storage container with
the sand.

** Add water to the sand. Don't add so much that it
becomes watered down.

** Wait atleast around an hour for the sand to be fully
damp.

** When you come back to it, touch the surface to feel
that it is damp. It is now ready.

** Make sure that if you use a bucket, that it is very large,
so that she will not be able to escape.

** If you use a large storage container, it is better, as you
can modify the lid to have a mesh screen for air, lighting, and
monitoring, and no escape. Works great for me!
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
In Turkey. There is no reptile vets. Because reptiles are illegal to sell or buy. It's very very bad.
Yes - very bad. And very irresponsible to own an animal that is both illegal and which you know you will be unable to properly care for, given they are illegal and you are unable or unwilling to go to a vet.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Chameleontb83 said..."If you use a large storage container, it is better, as you
can modify the lid to have a mesh screen for air, lighting, and
monitoring, and no escape. Works great for me!"

I've used 65 litre rubbermade type containers with modified lids for years. I cut a large hole in the lid and put screen over it. I fill the container at least 12 " deep with washed playsand that is just moist enough to hold a tunnel. I add a branch for the female to sit on and put her in and put the lid on. I add a UVB light across the screen. You want to be careful not to overheat the container by adding to hot a light. You can feed her and water her while she is in the container but don't leave any loose insects there and don't get the sand too wet. They can damage the eggs or bite her while she's laying. Also do not let her see you watching her while she is digging. It will make her feel that it's not a safe place to lay the eggs and she will stop digging. If it happens often enough it can lead to eggbinding.

Hope she lays all the eggs for you.
 

chameleontb83

New Member
I have stated this already.

I have stated this already. ;)

** You may also try to get a very large plastic storage tub, and fill it with
sand, anywhere between half and 3/4 full, depending of the size of the
container. First, poke holes in the sand bigger than your thumb at each 4
corners, and 4 holes in a square in the central area. Now, pour a considerably
fair amount of water evenly at each corner of the surface of the sand, then
pour a bit more 4 central areas of the middle, but not too much....just until
the same is still mostly dry at the top, but enough that you can tell that it's
getting pretty damp. This will ensure the sand gets evenly damp.
...........take the lid that came with the container, and cut out the inside of the
shape of it......about 3 to 4 inches away from the edges. Now get some mesh
screen material, and some cardboard. Cut about 1 to 2 inches in strips of the
cardboard, and cut a large enough piece of the mesh screen material that is bigger
than the hole you made in the lid. Lay the mesh and lay it evenly over the hole.
Now lay the strips of cardboard along all the sides atop the mesh around the hole.
Use a stapler and staple the cardboard down all around, and you will now have a
viewing area, area for hanging a warm lamp a few inches above the lid, well vented,
and is now an anti-escape lid that will ensure that you can leave your female in there
out of sight and make sure she digs in private.

This has proven successful for me many many times.
 
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