Dragon Strand Clear Side cages - material question

[broderp]

Does anyone know the thickness of the clear material used in these cages? Usually measured in "Mil's".

I asked on the thread that Dragon Strand Tread here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/large-wide-format-chameleon-cages-from-dragon-strand.149694/

but got no reply from Bill. I'm trying to decide for myself if I want to go that route or all mesh. I've had people say it's tough and easy to clean, but that's subjective. I'd like a tangible dimension I can comprehend and measure.

 

[laurie]

I am not sure how to measure the thickness of mine. I will say that I never have any problems cleaning them. They are thick enough, to not give much, I don't notice them flexing. I was one of the first to get Bills cages and I love them! Easy to clean, durable, and my chams do very well in them, hope that helps.

 

[broderp]

I am not sure how to measure the thickness of mine. I will say that I never have any problems cleaning them. They are thick enough, to not give much, I don't notice them flexing. I was one of the first to get Bills cages and I love them! Easy to clean, durable, and my chams do very well in them, hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply, but the engineer in me can't wrap my brain around abstract concepts. GIVE ME SPECS!!!! (haha kidding) I guess I may have to buy one and find out, but I can't figure out why Bill hasn't responded to my request. That kind of bugs me. I'd hate to have an expectation based on abstracts and be disappointed.

 

[werecat]

Have you tried emailing Bill directly through the Dragonstrand website? He's usually very responsive and happy to help a customer understand the products.

 

[nick barta]

Not sure what the result of knowing the thickness will provide you to make the decision; I would focus on what the chameleon benefits are in your decision, rather than over-thinking specs.

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[Glen the Jackson's]

go to his Facebook page! i messaged him on Facebook when i ordered my dragon ledges from him and he got back to me in 30 seconds!

 

[Furciferocious]

My precision measures are caliper-style, not C-micrometer style. So, I had to use some metal blocks as offsets to get around the frame, which may make these numbers totally bogus: But, I was getting between 8 and 10 thousandths (inch) for the plastic thickness.
In last week's podcast Bill said he was going to be in China and may not podcast this week, but I see he has a new podcast up today, so who knows. He is pretty responsive, keeping in mind he's one guy with a day job and a life.

 

[broderp]

Have you tried emailing Bill directly through the Dragonstrand website? He's usually very responsive and happy to help a customer understand the products.

no I have not. Sometimes the simple answer is the best. I honestly didn't think about that.

Not sure what the result of knowing the thickness will provide you to make the decision; I would focus on what the chameleon benefits are in your decision, rather than over-thinking specs.

CHEERS!

Nick

To each his own I guess. Knowing the material spec is critical to me in considering the options I have. I look at the material and will consider how I would be cleaning or using it. If The material meets my requirements I may be a heavy "scrubber" when it comes to cleaning and those who posted about its strength may be weaker so I can't base my expectations on someone else's experience. To avoid a bad experience on what for many is a great product, I would perhaps pass on the purchase in favor of something that would work for me, such as a glass or plexi-glass enclosure. If all this seem trivial to you then just know it's the Engineer in me, I can't buy toilet paper with out a spread sheet.

Don't worry about me losing focus on what benefits my Cham, it's foremost in my mind. It's the reason I'm even entertaining the idea of a new enclosure. Otherwise I'd stick with the expensive glass terrarium I have. I thank you for your concern and comments.

go to his Facebook page! i messaged him on Facebook when i ordered my dragon ledges from him and he got back to me in 30 seconds!

I don't Facebook. I know my friends personally and speak to them in person and on the phone.

My precision measures are caliper-style, not C-micrometer style. So, I had to use some metal blocks as offsets to get around the frame, which may make these numbers totally bogus: But, I was getting between 8 and 10 thousandths (inch) for the plastic thickness.
In last week's podcast Bill said he was going to be in China and may not podcast this week, but I see he has a new podcast up today, so who knows. He is pretty responsive, keeping in mind he's one guy with a day job and a life.

Thank you for attempting to measure this!! If I recall, 10 thousands of an inch is about 1/16" or 10 mil. As a reference I will use a known object like a trash bag that is also rated in Mils to get an idea of the thickness. This will NOT however tell me squat about the elasticity and tensile strength of the material. I'm certain that I cant compare Bills material to a trash bag, it almost sounds wrong to put the two words in the same sentence.

 

[nick barta]

I can't buy toilet paper with out a spread sheet.

Nice play on words....

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[AZChamFan]

Thank you for attempting to measure this!! If I recall, 10 thousands of an inch is about 1/16" or 10 mil. As a reference I will use a known object like a trash bag that is also rated in Mils to get an idea of the thickness. This will NOT however tell me squat about the elasticity and tensile strength of the material. I'm certain that I cant compare Bills material to a trash bag, it almost sounds wrong to put the two words in the same sentence.

I am a tool and die maker and I fully understand your concerns!!!!! I cannot help with the cage as I do not own one and have not seen one, but 8 to 10 mils seems awfully thin!!! I hope that was a false measurement, although I suppose it ultimately depends on how it is supported. Even acrylic in that thickness would be quite flimsy. For comparison purposes, 1/16 of an inch is .0625, and 10 mils equals .010, so 1/16 of an inch is more than six times as thick as 10 mils!!! 10 mils is about as thick as three sheets of average paper. I hope that you will keep us posted when you find out some facts on this material because I would like to know also. Thanks for doing this investigation!!!

 

[broderp]

Nice play on words....

CHEERS!

Nick

I am a tool and die maker and I fully understand your concerns!!!!! I cannot help with the cage as I do not own one and have not seen one, but 8 to 10 mils seems awfully thin!!! I hope that was a false measurement, although I suppose it ultimately depends on how it is supported. Even acrylic in that thickness would be quite flimsy. For comparison purposes, 1/16 of an inch is .0625, and 10 mils equals .010, so 1/16 of an inch is more than six times as thick as 10 mils!!! 10 mils is about as thick as three sheets of average paper. I hope that you will keep us posted when you find out some facts on this material because I would like to know also. Thanks for doing this investigation!!!

I suppose it depends on the material being used. I have a digital caliper in my office and .010" is real thin, as you stated- paper thin. I'll be emailing Bill directly and hopefully he can put to rest what the thickness is. I would assume the clear side cages are assembled the exact same way, with the exact same frames as the standard cage. It would not be a far stretch to think he uses the same method to affix the clear material as he does the screen. I have never seen a Dragon Strand cage other than in pictures. I'd be interested to see the assembly method used is the same as that used in making screen doors or windows. This may indicate a thicker film is used or a thicker cord to secure the film.

 

[Furciferocious]

I suppose it depends on the material being used. I have a digital caliper in my office and .010" is real thin, as you stated- paper thin. I'll be emailing Bill directly and hopefully he can put to rest what the thickness is. I would assume the clear side cages are assembled the exact same way, with the exact same frames as the standard cage. It would not be a far stretch to think he uses the same method to affix the clear material as he does the screen. I have never seen a Dragon Strand cage other than in pictures. I'd be interested to see the assembly method used is the same as that used in making screen doors or windows. This may indicate a thicker film is used or a thicker cord to secure the film.

So I'll take another run at this. The material is a film and not a panel, but I would not consider it "thin" for a film. We're talking 8-10 mils. By comparison, plastic wraps are ~0.5 mil, ziplock bags 1.5-2.0 mils, and heavy duty trash bags 2-3 mils (all this from the interweb). My printer paper is 3.5 mils. The clearside film is thicker than all that. It is installed the same way as a screen would be, channel and spline, into the same aluminum framing material.

While I understand the need to understand the engineering, the bottom line is that it has proven to be adequate for the application by a reasonable number of users. I've even poked it with sticks a couple times while setting up the cage and didn't damage it. It has some elasticity to deform and return, as I learned from the stick. One of my panthers paws at it when he wants out and doesn't damage it. It's fine.

Now I have an excuse to get a micrometer.

 

[AZChamFan]

So I'll take another run at this. The material is a film and not a panel, but I would not consider it "thin" for a film. We're talking 8-10 mils. By comparison, plastic wraps are ~0.5 mil, ziplock bags 1.5-2.0 mils, and heavy duty trash bags 2-3 mils (all this from the interweb). My printer paper is 3.5 mils. The clearside film is thicker than all that. It is installed the same way as a screen would be, channel and spline, into the same aluminum framing material.

While I understand the need to understand the engineering, the bottom line is that it has proven to be adequate for the application by a reasonable number of users. I've even poked it with sticks a couple times while setting up the cage and didn't damage it. It has some elasticity to deform and return, as I learned from the stick. One of my panthers paws at it when he wants out and doesn't damage it. It's fine.

Now I have an excuse to get a micrometer.

Thank you for the more detailed information - that helps a lot and makes sense. For a rigid material that needs to support itself 10 mils would be quite thin, but I totally agree that for a flexible film which is "stretched" in a frame, that is fairly thick. This sounds very similar to a clear vinyl film.