Dog food, Fish food

[robertc]

I am feeding my roaches and crickets with a dog food every day (their diet is only wet dog food, apples and oat flakes) and I had no problems ever. My oldest animal is F.verrucosus I have for four years.

Everything sounds like a nonsence to me, I guess that the lion's meat does not contain much more protein than beef. Because of some bodybuilding resons I have read a lot of materials concerning diet and the priciple is:
offer your body a lot of protein so that it can take what it needs. And it will not take more. If I was completely wrong, I guess I would not reach weight 105kg, benchpress 160, squat 195 and deadlift 240 without steroids.

The above story concerning a wet talking about too much proteins tells something about protein in cham's mouth, not roache's. I think that the problem was in overeating.

I guess that stories about necessity of gutloads were invented by the sellers. Same as medicaments against pig's flu, bird's flu...
Once I happened to talk to a very respected roach breeder-seller who told me that in last three years he has cultivated his breed of discoid roaches that his roaches contain 200% protein of regular ones. I am afraid sirs, that our hobby attracts many parasites interested in our money.

 

[pssh]

Umm, okay then. You aren't offering your animals other nutrients (which you should know about if you read as much as you say you do.) An animal that consumes vegetable matter, either directly or indirectly, still needs vegetable matter and the nutrients that come with it. If they were meant to eat so much protein without other vegetable matter then the insects they consume in the wild would also have an extremely high amount of protein. But do they?

By the way, chameleons aren't people. they aren't even mammals for that matter! You cannot compare the two as the same thing.

 

[robertc]

Exactly, chameleons are not people. I remember once discussing with a vet (an exelent reptile breeder by the way, he had babies of 15 species of chams) a few years ago my former "bodybuilding approach" when feeding chameleons. His reaction was that their digestion system is so simple that there is no point in some "very advanced" feeding method.

Ok, I do not deny that I use a mineral-vitamin dust. I am just not an extremist concerning chameleon food. There are many more important aspects concerning keeping and breeding.

 

[kinyonga]

So if we feed the chameleons the guy's roaches that contain 200% protein of the regular ones isn't it possible that the chameleon will get gout if its protein in the chameleon's mouth?

You said..."I am just not an extremist concerning chameleon food. There are many more important aspects concerning keeping and breeding. "...are you saying its not very important what you feed the insects that you feed to the chameleon? What aspects re: breeding and keeping are more important?

 

[warpdrive]

So if we feed the chameleons the guy's roaches that contain 200% protein of the regular ones isn't it possible that the chameleon will get gout if its protein in the chameleon's mouth?

You said..."I am just not an extremist concerning chameleon food. There are many more important aspects concerning keeping and breeding. "...are you saying its not very important what you feed the insects that you feed to the chameleon? What aspects re: breeding and keeping are more important?

The use of such a simple word "protein" when making your point might confuse people into thinking that there is only one type of protein. Clearly we are talking about animal protein and again, I don't want newbies to get confused at your points.

Harry

 

[robertc]

Kinyonga, sorry, I have written the last paragraph too vaguely. I mean that I have "solved" the feeding of my chams so that I am satisfied with it and I have many other problems to solve. Well, maybe I should apologize again because this sounds like passing to another topic.
Please, read all my posts as: I use dog food, I never had any problems with it and I have my reasons to believe that my approach is correct.

Concerning the roaches with 200% of a regular protein ratio, it was meant as an example of a seller telling lies. I hope nobody here believes that the guy could achieve it.

 

[tkilgour]

Kinyonga, sorry, I have written the last paragraph too vaguely. I mean that I have "solved" the feeding of my chams so that I am satisfied with it and I have many other problems to solve. Well, maybe I should apologize again because this sounds like passing to another topic.
Please, read all my posts as: I use dog food, I never had any problems with it and I have my reasons to believe that my approach is correct.

Concerning the roaches with 200% of a regular protein ratio, it was meant as an example of a seller telling lies. I hope nobody here believes that the guy could achieve it.

I am feeding my roaches and crickets with a dog food every day (their diet is only wet dog food, apples and oat flakes) and I had no problems ever. My oldest animal is F.verrucosus I have for four years.

Everything sounds like a nonsence to me, I guess that the lion's meat does not contain much more protein than beef. Because of some bodybuilding resons I have read a lot of materials concerning diet and the priciple is:
offer your body a lot of protein so that it can take what it needs. And it will not take more. If I was completely wrong, I guess I would not reach weight 105kg, benchpress 160, squat 195 and deadlift 240 without steroids.

The above story concerning a wet talking about too much proteins tells something about protein in cham's mouth, not roache's. I think that the problem was in overeating.

I guess that stories about necessity of gutloads were invented by the sellers. Same as medicaments against pig's flu, bird's flu...
Once I happened to talk to a very respected roach breeder-seller who told me that in last three years he has cultivated his breed of discoid roaches that his roaches contain 200% protein of regular ones. I am afraid sirs, that our hobby attracts many parasites interested in our money.

Wow....I think I am going to try and feed my Chameleon feeders wet dog food so they can bench press 358lbs. I do agree that the hobby attracts parasites interested in our money and over feeding is a problem. However, your chameleons will be more healthy if you use Kale, Collard Green, Mustard Greens, Spirulina extract, Bee pollen, Grated Carrots, Dried Beans, and Alfalfa as a gutload. Wet dog food is not the answer! Your posts confuses me. Kinyonga has been keeping reptiles for over 20yrs and her methods are tried and true.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Im sure dog food, as a smaller part of a gutload to roaches and when used in combination with vegetables etc, isnt the biggest concern on the block. Some small amount of animal protien could happen in the wild, where they would presumably eat small birds and small reptiles occassionally, or even bugs that feed on dead animals. Indeed people on this forum occassionally offer pinkies (which I dont suggest or support).

Clearly this limited use without occurence of gout matches your experience Clifford (and having known your boy a long time, I can attest to his health).

For anyone using dog food: Watch the ingredients of the dog food carefully. Be aware that dog food contains Vitamin A and probably D, which you dont want too much of (especially if one is also supplementing with these in powder form)

I personally dont use dog, cat or fish food for my roaches, and the colony (and the chameleons) are fine without it.

 

[Elizadolots]

Some small amount of animal protien could happen in the wild, where they would presumably eat small birds and small reptiles occassionally, or even bugs that feed on dead animals. Indeed people on this forum occassionally offer pinkies (which I dont suggest or support).

ummm....this isn't about feeding the chameleon birds or mice. It's about feeding them insects and insects in the wild eat meat. I suspect people are just assuming the insect is nothing more than a vehicle for delivering the "gutload" but, in fact, the insect contains a whole lot of processing chemicals that let it digest the food in question and, when the chameleon eats the insect, it gets those too.

 

[sandrachameleon]

ummm....this isn't about feeding the chameleon birds or mice. It's about feeding them insects and insects in the wild eat meat. I suspect people are just assuming the insect is nothing more than a vehicle for delivering the "gutload" but, in fact, the insect contains a whole lot of processing chemicals that let it digest the food in question and, when the chameleon eats the insect, it gets those too.

I dont think we disagree.
My point was that they will eat meat eating insects in the wild, and will also directly eat non-insect foods on occassion if opportunity presents itself, so we need not panic about some smaller amounts of animal protein in the guts of insects being a concern.

 

[tkilgour]

Very well said Sandrachameleon.