Does my chameleon have metabolic bone disease?

Nicburch

Nicburch

New Member
IMG-2958.jpg
IMG-2951.jpg
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based on these images, can you tell if my piebald veiled chameleon has MBD?
 
Nicburch said:
View attachment 308674View attachment 308675View attachment 308676based on these images, can you tell if my piebald veiled chameleon has MBD?
Click to expand...
Omg! Poor baby. Looks like mbd with fractures! Vet asap. I read a thread on this site where a vet assistant rehab one and use straws as splints. Try and find that tread here and read others as much as you can to get knowledable fast so you can save her also post where you are at so hopefully you can get a great vet near you. Time is of the essence because your little one is Probably suffering. sending prayers your way
 
Yes, he does. And it is a rather extreme case.... You need a reptile vet and you should do a husbandry review to correct the aspects causing it before it worsens and causes deformity in other parts of his body. Fill out the form below (copy paste into your reply) with details include pictures of the entire enclosure including the lighting on top.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 
Welcome to the forum!

As @Beman said..."Yes, he does. And it is a rather extreme case.... You need a reptile vet and you should do a husbandry review to correct the aspects causing it before it worsens and causes deformity in other parts of his body."...I agree with this.

To correct it, you do need a vet IMHO... And your chameleon needs proper UVB, proper supplements, well fed insects, appropriate temperatures and in addition, will need a liquid calcium until the bones, muscles and other systems in your chameleon are strong again. The damage that's already done will likely remain...and I would keep her in a hospital type cage until she is stronger so she won't fall and break more bones. A hospital cage is just a lower cage with less things to climb on...but you need to be careful with the lighting so you don't burn her or overheat her or overdo the UVB because she may have difficulty moving around until the MBD is fixed.

Once it's fixed you will be able to drop he liquid calcium and continue with proper husbandry to stop it from returning.
 
Last edited:
Beman said:
Yes, he does. And it is a rather extreme case.... You need a reptile vet and you should do a husbandry review to correct the aspects causing it before it worsens and causes deformity in other parts of his body. Fill out the form below (copy paste into your reply) with details include pictures of the entire enclosure including the lighting on top.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
Click to expand...
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - I've had this piebald veiled chameleon for about 2 months and he was 3 months old when I got him so he's 5 months old.
  • Handling - I used to handle him 3 times a week for about 15 to 20 minutes but recently over the past 2 weeks I can tell he does not want to be handled.
  • Feeding - I'm feeding my cham 10 crickets in the morning and 10 at night. I put calcium with vitamin d3 on the crickets once a week. I'm using Flukers orange cube complete cricket diet for the crickets.
  • Watering - I use a mist sprayer and I spray it over the top about 3-4 times a day. I see him drinking all the time.
  • Fecal Description -My cham has never been tested for parasites. His poop is brown and his pee is white.
  • History - When I first got him he was a tiny little guy with skinny little arms. His arms looked like toothpicks but they looked normal compared to other chameleons. A few weeks ago, I started noticing some changes in his behavior. It appears as if he isn't climbing as well, although he still does it. He also doesn't like to be handled at all anymore. If I stick my hand in his terrarium, he opens his mouth wide and hisses at me most of the time. The one good thing I've noticed is that he's starting to get some beautiful colors. If this is Metabolic Bone Disease, I'd really like to know what I can do to fix this problem. I wasn't expecting this at all and I understand it will probably be an expensive fix.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Glass 10 gallon cage. It has a wire roof so he can climb
  • Lighting - My daily lighting schedule is 60w daylight blue UVA light around 9 am, then 50w night heat lamp around midnight.
  • Temperature - I do not measure the temperature
  • Humidity - I do not measure humitidy, I just mist his cage when I think it looks dry.
  • Plants - I was using a live plant but it died. Other than that I have 5 fake plants.
  • Placement - The top of his cage is about 4 1/2 feet above the floor. There is no fans blowing into the cage. My room is normally pretty warm
  • Location - San Antonio, Tx

Current Problem - Metabolic bone disease
 

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kinyonga said:
Welcome to the forum!

As @Beman said..."Yes, he does. And it is a rather extreme case.... You need a reptile vet and you should do a husbandry review to correct the aspects causing it before it worsens and causes deformity in other parts of his body."...I agree with this.

To correct it, you do need a vet IMHO... And your chameleon needs proper UVB, proper supplements, well fed insects, appropriate temperatures and in addition, will need a liquid calcium until the bones, muscles and other systems in your chameleon are strong again. The damage that's already done will likely remain...and I would keep her in a hospital type cage until she is stronger so she won't fall and break more bones. A hospital cage is just a lower cage with less things to climb on...but you need to be careful with the lighting so you don't burn her or overheat her or overdo the UVB because she may have difficulty moving around until the MBD is fixed.

Once it's fixed you will be able to drop he liquid calcium and continue with proper husbandry to stop it from returning.
Click to expand...
kinyonga said:
Welcome to the forum!

As @Beman said..."Yes, he does. And it is a rather extreme case.... You need a reptile vet and you should do a husbandry review to correct the aspects causing it before it worsens and causes deformity in other parts of his body."...I agree with this.

To correct it, you do need a vet IMHO... And your chameleon needs proper UVB, proper supplements, well fed insects, appropriate temperatures and in addition, will need a liquid calcium until the bones, muscles and other systems in your chameleon are strong again. The damage that's already done will likely remain...and I would keep her in a hospital type cage until she is stronger so she won't fall and break more bones. A hospital cage is just a lower cage with less things to climb on...but you need to be careful with the lighting so you don't burn her or overheat her or overdo the UVB because she may have difficulty moving around until the MBD is fixed.

Once it's fixed you will be able to drop he liquid calcium and continue with proper husbandry to stop it from returning.
Click to expand...
Just wondering but how much should a trip to the vet cost me? I'm sort of low on cash. Where could I get liquid calcium?
 
He’s suffering as it is. I know it’s not you’re fault because obviously you’ve been given all the wrong information on how to keep a chameleon but the greatest and kindest thing you can do for him now is beg or borrow the money and get him to a good chameleon vet ASAP! He’s in pain, that’s why he doesn’t like to be handled any more! He’s in pain every time he moves!
 
This is a case study in how quickly MBD can occur without proper UVB. It's only takes two months folks.
 
Nicburch said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - I've had this piebald veiled chameleon for about 2 months and he was 3 months old when I got him so he's 5 months old.
  • Handling - I used to handle him 3 times a week for about 15 to 20 minutes but recently over the past 2 weeks I can tell he does not want to be handled.
  • Feeding - I'm feeding my cham 10 crickets in the morning and 10 at night. I put calcium with vitamin d3 on the crickets once a week. I'm using Flukers orange cube complete cricket diet for the crickets.
  • Watering - I use a mist sprayer and I spray it over the top about 3-4 times a day. I see him drinking all the time.
  • Fecal Description -My cham has never been tested for parasites. His poop is brown and his pee is white.
  • History - When I first got him he was a tiny little guy with skinny little arms. His arms looked like toothpicks but they looked normal compared to other chameleons. A few weeks ago, I started noticing some changes in his behavior. It appears as if he isn't climbing as well, although he still does it. He also doesn't like to be handled at all anymore. If I stick my hand in his terrarium, he opens his mouth wide and hisses at me most of the time. The one good thing I've noticed is that he's starting to get some beautiful colors. If this is Metabolic Bone Disease, I'd really like to know what I can do to fix this problem. I wasn't expecting this at all and I understand it will probably be an expensive fix.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Glass 10 gallon cage. It has a wire roof so he can climb
  • Lighting - My daily lighting schedule is 60w daylight blue UVA light around 9 am, then 50w night heat lamp around midnight.
  • Temperature - I do not measure the temperature
  • Humidity - I do not measure humitidy, I just mist his cage when I think it looks dry.
  • Plants - I was using a live plant but it died. Other than that I have 5 fake plants.
  • Placement - The top of his cage is about 4 1/2 feet above the floor. There is no fans blowing into the cage. My room is normally pretty warm
  • Location - San Antonio, Tx

Current Problem - Metabolic bone disease
Click to expand...
Sadly like Erklerose said he cages is completely wrong I understand this probably wasn’t ur fault due to incorrect information given but a vet is definitely needed ASAP he is in serious condition I would read all the links everyone has sent u and watch Neptune the chameleon on YouTube
 
Ok so lets start with feedback. I am sure your overwhelmed but I am going to lay it all out there for you so you do not even have to go search for items. Yes, the cham needs the vet for the correct liquid calcium. But you have lots of husbandry changes to make. The thing is all of this will cost money. So I know you said you were tight on money. Unfortunately these changes are a have to do thing. If you are not going to be able to do this then please let us know. We want to help you and the cham. Which means we can give you resources to rescues as well.
So lets begin. See my feedback in bold.

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - I've had this piebald veiled chameleon for about 2 months and he was 3 months old when I got him so he's 5 months old. Looks to be a male, I am seeing a tarsal spur. Which is good since MBD is particularly dangerous for females as they lay infertile eggs.
  • Handling - I used to handle him 3 times a week for about 15 to 20 minutes but recently over the past 2 weeks I can tell he does not want to be handled. Little man probably hurts trying to move around also at 5 months he is starting to hit maturity. They are known for not being fond of people.
  • Feeding - I'm feeding my cham 10 crickets in the morning and 10 at night. I put calcium with vitamin d3 on the crickets once a week. I'm using Flukers orange cube complete cricket diet for the crickets. Ok so no feeding at night at all. Only in the morning so he can digest them. 15-20 a day for now is good. BUT you need to go buy calcium WITHOUT D3 today. This will be given at every feeding. Then you will buy Reptivite without D3. So you will use the reptivite every other week rotating with the calcium WITH d3. So each is given 2 times a month total. Then at all other feedings you will dust the feeders in the calcium WITHOUT d3. Orange cubes do not work. Buy repashy bug burger and mix as directed or get fresh gutload see image below.
  • Reptivite link https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptivite-without-Vitamin/dp/B00167S5GC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=VCM9X7K0GB4G&dchild=1&keywords=reptivite+without+d3&qid=1630020672&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=reptivite+,pets,202&sr=1-2
  • calcium without D3 https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptile-Calcium-without/dp/B000UJPHL8/ref=sr_1_3?crid=RTMBS9L9GVHW&dchild=1&keywords=calcium+without+d3&qid=1630020716&s=pet-supplies&sprefix=calcium+wit,pets,210&sr=1-3
  • Repashy bug burger gutload. https://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Burg...g+burger&qid=1630020757&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-1
  • Watering - I use a mist sprayer and I spray it over the top about 3-4 times a day. I see him drinking all the time. So typically we recommend 2-4 minutes morning and evening and then a dripper during the day. BUT this is with a screen enclosure that has airflow.
  • Fecal Description -My cham has never been tested for parasites. His poop is brown and his pee is white.
  • History - When I first got him he was a tiny little guy with skinny little arms. His arms looked like toothpicks but they looked normal compared to other chameleons. A few weeks ago, I started noticing some changes in his behavior. It appears as if he isn't climbing as well, although he still does it. He also doesn't like to be handled at all anymore. If I stick my hand in his terrarium, he opens his mouth wide and hisses at me most of the time. The one good thing I've noticed is that he's starting to get some beautiful colors. If this is Metabolic Bone Disease, I'd really like to know what I can do to fix this problem. I wasn't expecting this at all and I understand it will probably be an expensive fix. Yes, It is going to be a bit to get everything corrected. Everything is going to cost money. So all the cage changes I will be telling you have to be done regardless or he will die. Now for the vet... Yes, because they will need to do possibly do xrays and bloodwork. And you will have to buy the liquid calcium.

Cage Info:




Now then you want to read through everything in this husbandry program. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

Please understand EVERYTHING I am suggesting and giving you links for are have to buy items. UVB and supplements need to be ordered right now. Then the entire cage needs to be corrected. This cham is at risk for also developing a respiratory infection if it is left in the fish tank.

This is a ton of info but right now the MBD can be stopped from progressing. If you wait it will get much much worse until he dies. This is not an easy death this is painful for them. With MBD the calcium is literally being sucked from their bones making them weak and brittle. They bend and break.

chameleon-gutload.jpg
chameleon-food(1).jpg
chameleon academy plants.png
 
Green Dino said:
Sadly like Erklerose said he cages is completely wrong I understand this probably wasn’t ur fault due to incorrect information given but a vet is definitely needed ASAP he is in serious condition I would read all the links everyone has sent u and watch Neptune the chameleon on YouTube
Click to expand...
Does anybody know what I should do if the vet is closed? All of the vets near me are closed for the weekend. Is there anything I can do to keep him alive or make him feel better? I bought liquid calcium and a new UVB light. Any suggestions?
 
Nicburch said:
Does anybody know what I should do if the vet is closed? All of the vets near me are closed for the weekend. Is there anything I can do to keep him alive or make him feel better? I bought liquid calcium and a new UVB light. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Your going to start here hun... read through everything I gave you in this post https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...ve-metabolic-bone-disease.184091/post-1687747

Make sure you are scrolling up you will not get alerts for all the feedback from people only the last comment on your thread.
 
Nicburch said:
Does anybody know what I should do if the vet is closed? All of the vets near me are closed for the weekend. Is there anything I can do to keep him alive or make him feel better? I bought liquid calcium and a new UVB light. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Since the vet is closed go through the info Beman gave u
 
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