Decreased fat pads on casque

[sandrachameleon]

As of now, I'm feeding him 10 large crickets in a meal in the morning. Roaches aren't available around here to my knowledge, and I had been offering him lot's of silk worms and wax worms.

I suggest you add a second meal mid-day-ish of something like butterworms, silkworms or superworms.

 

[tdotcham]

so I spoke to the vet today, apparently the test they ran was an SAF? He stated that it was more accurate than a fecal float... Would this also cover any bacteria infections??

 

[sandrachameleon]

Dunno the answer to your question about the type of testing.
But curious to know, is he gainined weight yet?

 

[tdotcham]

his pads are starting to gain from what I can see and his last poop was very good as well.

 

[sandrachameleon]

that's great!

 

[tdotcham]

updating to his current condition: His pads were gaining and not depressed. His appetite was healthy, yesterday he ate around 15 crickets in two seperate feedings and was alert. I went out last night and stayed at a friends, when I was coming back at around 4 my girlfriend informed me that he was sleeping and that alarmed me so I came home to check him out. He was definitely asleep, I woke him up and moved him around but he went right back to sleep... I was stressed out as its thanksgiving monday and everything is closed, so we went for a roller blade for about an hour.

When we got back, he was awake, and had a loose poop that was smelly. He was climbing the side of the cage, so I went to try and feed him as he didnt eat his feeders from this morning - which never happens, he gets them as soon as I put them on the mesh. So he went to cup feed, and couldn't throw his tongue after around 6 attempts. I put the cup close to him, and let him eat around 10 feeders thus far tonight just by basically biting them out of the cup. His basking stance is weird, he seems to have his front leg held up in the air, and when he was approaching the feeder cup he was flailing his leg like he couldnt find something to hold on to even though it was right infront of him. I feel as if his depth perception is off somehow.. I dont understand how things can change so drastically over the period of one day

 

[tdotcham]

well I just cupfed him again, it was a bit slow as I wanted him to get 4 more feeders dusted with a new package of reptivite... towards the last 3 his tongue seems to have projected a bit more. more than what he was doing initially thats for sure.

I am stressed out!

 

[Cainschams]

I skimmed through the thread so maybe it has been said but what are the ambient and basking temps? If he is not able to warm up to ideal operating temps then this could also be the problem or adding to the problem.

 

[tdotcham]

the room temps are in the 70's, and he basks under a 60w bulb thats at around 90*

 

[Cainschams]

Does he spend a lot of time basking? Like A LOT of time or does he seem pretty regular getting warmed up and then chillin in a lower spot?

 

[kinyonga]

Since only one fecal was run, I would recommend running another one. If the parasites aren't shedding at the time of the test they won't show up.

 

[summoner12]

large crickets are the staple... the decrease of 4 feeders everyday/everyother day was utilized by many keepers here and I wanted to mimic a more natural diet for him. It may have been a poor choice, but I think this is more of a sudden weight loss that I noticed more recently and am now working to battle. it's difficult when you see them everyday to notice a weight loss.

As for the internal bacteria, that could be a cause. I inspected his feces closely two days ago, and noticed a partial part of a non fully digested cricket. Reading your blog you had a mixed solution, however what other medication could he go on?

I don't think there is anything wrong with cutting back. Obviously you don't want to starve the cham.... but not overfeeding is good. I wouldn't cut back on food until maybe they are 14 months or older and have a good weight. The key is maintaining the weight..... but having shallow fat pads can be a hydration issue as well since most of the pad is filled with water (or a liquid substance).

I would maybe step up his food intake, but fatty food isn't good. Try giving him nutritious feeders that will be good for him. Be sure the crickets are gutloaded well and well hydrated as well. The crickets should ooz when he chews them, not crunch.

Be sure he doesn't have parasites as well... make sure hes healthy and if so, just step up the food intake. But, don't resort to fat food....

 

[tdotcham]

Does he spend a lot of time basking? Like A LOT of time or does he seem pretty regular getting warmed up and then chillin in a lower spot?

He seems to wander and not sit under the lamp from morning till night... However I'm not home all day everyday so I can't say that for sure. Summoner, were you able to see my previous post? He was sleeping during the day yesterday, however woke up around 5 and then could not throw his tongue after another loose poop (has been happening for the past two or three weeks). The poop definitely had a smell to it as when I went to the cage I noticed a smell.

This morning he was alert, saw me bringing his cup of feeders and came over. He threw at the cup with his tongue fine, ate around 4 feeders then was uninterested to hunt (I had to leave for class couldn't stay). However, this behavior is different as he always actively hunts immediately as food is present. I did feed him late last night so I'm not sure if that would affect his appetite but he's never turned down food (although I've never given him as much in a small time span)

 

[muji]

as Kinyonga mentioned another fecal test would definitely be the way to go imo. These results can vary from day to day, poop to poop and it's vital to get a fresh sample to be investigated within 24hrs. his fat pads sound more of a dehydration issue, we all know how stubborn they can be with regards to drinking what works well for us is placing a large ficus tree or similar in the shower and let luke warm water run through half of it from a height so it replicates raindrops ( misters & dripper dont do this!! we feel it's the vibration through the leaves and branches that encourage drinking) it's important that part of the tree stays dry so ur cham has the option to retreat if it desires. I would do this every day for at least half an hour for a week and see if there's any improvement. You might find he will hate this the first time but they soon realise it can be a nice place to be. it's amazing how much they will drink and for how long. hope this helps.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Dehydration is visible by sunken eye turrets. Fat pads are just that - pads of fat and typically do not change with dehydration like they would with nutrition.

 

[muji]

fat pads r a combination of nutrition & hydration this works in unison.
Sunken eyes is a symptom of dehydration but is also a symptom of many other underlying problems. It's very important to get this balance, so as to rule out more complicated issues.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Though Im personally not a fan of showering chameleons (I believe the stress outweighs any small benefit) increasing access to water never hurts. A long spray bottle session (which very much can replicate rain drops) daily along with a dripper is a good thing.

A smelly poop suggests something is amiss. Another fecal may be in order.

Im glad he was able to hunt better today fine. I wouldnt worry that the amount was slightly less than usual for today.

Is his movement still unusual (flailing legs) or has that settled back to normal ?

 

[tdotcham]

no, he was acting fine today... I dont get it. his tongue aim was on spot, and he hunted when I presented crickets infront of him. I do think he spent alot of time basking today however. My gf was home all day and said he wasnt asleep that she saw, I also noticed this aside from coming home from the grocery store and finding him with 1 eye closed (i noticed he did this a few months back) however as soon as I walked in my kitten jumped on our bed and the small amount of noise made him open his eye...So i can only assume he wasnt sleeping like yesterday.

yesterday he was for sure asleep, his colours were in night mode and his tail was curled up. this never happens when i have previously seen him with 1 eye closed basking.

How many fecals will it take to capture an issue? i truly believe that he must have one with these symptons... but each fecal is 50 dollars and there is only one vet that will perform one in my area that doesnt charge a 100 dollar consult fee to go and see the animal. my issue here is i dont want the added stress to take him in to a doctor who probably has seen very few chameleons or knows much about them

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

We usually do at least 3 fecals, each a few weeks apart before you can really feel comfortable ruling out parasites. The lifecycle of most parasites are a few weeks long so the hope is to catch them during the period when they're shedding eggs. I don't have a lot to offer for suggestions at this point since he's doing better today and I know you're doing everything you can to perfect his husbandry. Not sure why he had a bad day... Can you take in just a fecal sample without having to bring him in too?

 

[sandrachameleon]

Since he is now acting normally, you could wait, see how he goes. If the next poop stinks, Im afriad you really do need to shell out for the second fecal.

what time of day was he sleeping before? As the days get shorter they do start to sleep sooner