Cross??????

Rango3d

Avid Member
I just received a ankaramy male. I plan on finding a female and have 100% ankaramy babies.
Now I was thinking of also crossing him with a different locale just to see what happens.
Good idea??????
What locale??????
Has anyone seem a male ankaramy breed with a ????? and the out come?
I do have a extra ambilobe female that I don't plan on breeding any time soon, worth a try???
Oppinions would greatly be appretitated.
:D
 
Please keep your line clean its a pain to people if their lines get mixed with other locals. I will pm you, I know where to get a female.
 
I just received a ankaramy male. I plan on finding a female and have 100% ankaramy babies.
Now I was thinking of also crossing him with a different locale just to see what happens.
Good idea??????
What locale??????
Has anyone seem a male ankaramy breed with a ????? and the out come?
I do have a extra ambilobe female that I don't plan on breeding any time soon, worth a try???
Oppinions would greatly be appretitated.
:D

if you are confident you can find homes for the crosses, which you will undoubtedly NOT get much money for, (you will likely loose money overall) then go for it.

I am aware there are purists in the hobby who think that having crosses will ruin the hobby. I think that is non-sense. Those who want "pure" animals will be able to get them from reputable breeders with known lineages. Those who want something unique or who don't care / want to pay less will enjoy an animal from a cross local pairing.

There have been an unending number of threads debating the value of crosses, arguments for and against. Read some of these and you'll probably get a good feel for the overall views on this forum:
Panther Cross-breeding debates:
Panther Hybrids
https://www.chameleonforums.com/cross...panthers-31504
crossbreeding
https://www.chameleonforums.com/why-n...ambilobe-7124/
Why only certain cross breeds?
https://www.chameleonforums.com/cross-breeding-40955
Breeding true bloodlines

Within one of the above links, you will find this comment, which may explain why you don't see a lot of ank crosses around.
Chameleon Company said:
... exceedingly poor results of trying to cross an Ankaramy with any other locale.

I love my crosses, equally or more than the "pure" animals Ive had.
I would also love to see more "pure" ankaramy available for sale.

(I put "pure" in quotes because really most of the pure local animals in captivity aren't all that true to the wild anyways - they are bred for colour and size that appeal to people, not fitness or naturalness / not truly representative of the colours found in the wild. also exporters are not reliable in properly labeling what they ship - they provide what people want, not necessarily what they actually have)

p.s. Its not really a cross breeding to breed one Panther with another Panther. They are all Furcifer pardalis.
 
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Responsible breeding of crosses will not ruin the hobby. Careless breeding of crosses does represent a risk. If you are going to sell your crosses to people who understand what that means and the implications for future breeding then I don't see a problem with it. But if you're going to sell crosses indiscriminately and not provide good documentation to indicate their lineage then it would be very easy for someone who has a crossed female to either say it's a pure locale or just not realize she's a cross. And with females you have no way to know until she's produced offspring and those offspring mature. Then you can get unintentionally impure lines, which can be pretty devastating.

I like to compare it to Golden Retrievers. This breed is known for having a very high rate of cancer, but only in the last two or three decades has this been a significant problem. Before that they were similar to other breeds in cancer rates. The prevailing theory is that there was a champion Golden in multiple shows (field trial, conformation, and agility I think) that was a highly sought out stud. He was bred with many, many Goldens during his day due to his good bloodlines. Well he later died of cancer - the same cancer that now is very common in Goldens (hemangiosarcoma). No one knew at the time of his prolific breedings that he had this so now are we seeing it across the gene pool because of his contributions to genetics? We can't say for sure, but it's a pretty convincing theory for why this is suddenly so wide spread and he was such a prolific stud dog.

The point of my rambling is that if someone has a prolific cross female, or a crossed male that represents one locale well, it could taint a lot more gene pools than we realize until it's too late. And then we can't stop it. If done responsibly I don't think it's harmful. But not everyone will take the precautions needed so those should not undertake that type of breeding project. Especially with rarer locales when the captive gene pool is already pretty limited. That's my opinion anyway, for what it's worth.
 
I plan on breeding a pure line. Especially when their are very very few ankaramy pink panthers out there.
I just never heard of any one producing a pink hybrid.
The idea was just more to see what it would look like.
A 1 time deal.
No 1 for the idea?
 
When you cross you may or may not get the exact traits you're looking for. Sometimes the trait you want is more recessive to other traits so it's lost. And sometimes it works exactly how you want, but you don't know which it will be going into it. Just food for thought.
 
Responsible breeding of crosses will not ruin the hobby. Careless breeding of crosses does represent a risk. If you are going to sell your crosses to people who understand what that means and the implications for future breeding then I don't see a problem with it. But if you're going to sell crosses indiscriminately and not provide good documentation to indicate their lineage then it would be very easy for someone who has a crossed female to either say it's a pure locale or just not realize she's a cross. And with females you have no way to know until she's produced offspring and those offspring mature. Then you can get unintentionally impure lines, which can be pretty devastating.
.


Dayna You should start a Cross Thread. Saying basically what you just stated about going to sell crosses responsibly.
 
After reading lots of those old posts, I get it.
If you go to the animal shelters you normally see muts. Almost never pure breed animals.
I agree with chameleoman.
This forum is here to educate people to be better keepers and help people out.
I think their needs to be a sticky or blog or something, why not to cross.
Instead of debating, why not educate.
I'm in no way saying its wrong, but educate why you shouldn't.
I'm listening! Start by educating me. :rolleyes:
 
I dont quite understand what is so wrong with crosses. Some of these animals look amazing. Look at some of the ones Kammer uses. They are outstanding animals. And isnt it the look that sells these animals?

Also its a natural thing in the wild. Your talking about locals living right next door to each other. I mean Ambanja and Ambilobe are only 50 miles apart.

Now dont get me wrong. I can fully understand the value of a full breed. Growing up we used to raise Weimaraners. Our male we had documentation going back 50+ generations. But with Panthers (correct me if im wrong) all im seeing is a color change and not a physical body change. And yes for those who want to keep pure lines I can see how not listing these animals as crosses can be a problem. But does crossing do any harm to these guys. Like medical issues or birth defects?
 
Haven't there been studies in Madagascar that have determined that mixed locale offspring do not exhibit the same survival rate in the wild as the pure locale? I thought I read that somewhere..........
 
After reading lots of those old posts, I get it.
If you go to the animal shelters you normally see muts. Almost never pure breed animals.
I agree with chameleoman.
This forum is here to educate people to be better keepers and help people out.
I think their needs to be a sticky or blog or something, why not to cross.
Instead of debating, why not educate.
I'm in no way saying its wrong, but educate why you shouldn't.
I'm listening! Start by educating me. :rolleyes:

Not everyone agrees with the idea that crosses are bad and shouldn't be done. I certainly don't.
I like my cross panthers, and I liked my mutt dog too (and it was far healthier than most pure bred (inbred) dogs).

There is room in the hobby for both crosses and "pure" panthers
 
I guess I stated it incorrectly.
We need to be educated on why not to cross and the people who chose to cross need to be educated on the responsibilities of crossing.
I get theirs people for both sides.
But both sides need to be educated.
Does that make more sense?

Remember I was thinking of crossing my pink panther.
After reading some old posts. The last thing I wanna do is make 1 mistake and mess people up. So now I'm choosing not to breed any crosses.
I didn't get to this point without people's help.
That's why I say educate. On both veiws.
 
pm

I say take the advertised pm and breed the purebreds. They are difficult to find. I like the female panthers best, i am weird i know, & the ankaramy females always look great.
 
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