Could he be in the teenage years?

[WelshOneEmma]

Hi All,

We have had our male veiled for 8 weeks (today in fact) and I believe he was about 8 weeks old when we got him. He has always been a little nervous around us, so I felt that we should not try to handle him too much until he was used to us (since been told by the breeder we bought him from that that was wrong and we should have been handling him every day. I am not sure I agree with that). Anyway, since we have had him, he has been handled a few times when we have needed to take him out of his cage (once to the vets and once for a deep clean). A week ago we decided to do another deep clean (I spot clean everyday, and do a deepclean once a month, tidy up the ficus etc) and when I put my hand in (did it gently, the way we used to handle our previous chameleon and like they demonstrate in the videos on this site) and he went MENTAL. He went colours we have never seen before, there was major hissing and he went for us quite a few times. We eventually managed to get him to crawl onto a vine, which we then put in a box so we could clean. He did not calm down. We quickly cleaned the cage, put everything back, but also added extra vines (he crawls on the wires sometimes and I worry as he gets bigger he will pull them down with his weight), plus another (live) plant. I assumed it would take a few days for him to settle. He is eating, but only about 10-15 crickets/locusts a day (he normally eats about 20-25) but now is hanging out the back. He won't use his basking light that much (just sits in the middle of the ficus now and watches) and everytime I put my hand in (either to clean up his HUGE poops or to try him on a waxie), he flares up with these new, bright colours.

Have I pissed him off for life? Or is he entering his teenage years? Any ideas?

 

[zelink14]

I've noticed my male veiled in the last several months has changed his behavior many times... He finally became more aggressive, and it has gone up and down since then -- so maybe they just go through different phases. I was actually worried at one point that he was more aggressive because he was sick... (he was having problems not eating at the time)

I don't know about the colors, though. I can't imagine "bright colors" coming out at 8 weeks of age! D: Mine is only starting to get his color at 5 months of age.

 

[summoner12]

He is stressed right now. Give him some space.

Is the cage well planted so he feels secure? is it high up? He should be able to climb higher than your head in his cage.

Veileds seem to like coverage. My guy Fred likes to sit behind some fake plants I have hanging on the sides of his cage. He'll sit there all day. I use fake plants and hang them on the sides of the cage.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Let me explain what I thin bright colours are! His normal colours are light green, with his stripes a different colour green and he has orange eyebrows and down his casque. When he is hunting, he goes brown (like his vines). The colours he went the other day were yellow with dark olive green with almost black spots. They were amazing colours, but I understand that they are not good colours!

 

[zelink14]

Veileds seem to like coverage. My guy Fred likes to sit behind some fake plants I have hanging on the sides of his cage. He'll sit there all day. I use fake plants and hang them on the sides of the cage.

That's actually comforting because mine does that too... He always seems to be more active in the evening after hiding all morning.

Yeah, I wondered if it might be stress, too. Maybe try cleaning every other day, or every three days?

EDIT -- Oh! I just caught that you've had him 8 weeks and got him when he was 8 weeks old. So that'd make him 4 months old... okay, the colors make more sense to me then. lol

 

[WelshOneEmma]

He is stressed right now. Give him some space.

Is the cage well planted so he feels secure? is it high up? He should be able to climb higher than your head in his cage.

Veileds seem to like coverage. My guy Fred likes to sit behind some fake plants I have hanging on the sides of his cage. He'll sit there all day. I use fake plants and hang them on the sides of the cage.

The top of the cage is about 6ft high, so he can climb higher than my head! It's in the corner of the living room out of the way. There is a large ficus in there along with a bushy gardenia, so he has plenty of coverage (sometimes you can not find him for love nor money!). I am trying to attach a recent (happy) pic of him and his enclosure, but being a girl i am struggling with technology!

 

[zelink14]

What a cutie. I'd say back off for a few days except for feeding and spraying. He'll probably start eating normally again once he feels more safe.

As he sees it, that's his territory and it's being breached way too often for his taste. I doubt he likes that.

Good luck!

 

[summoner12]

Yeah you need some more coverage...

sorry this will sound negative... but that's one of 'those' plastic enclosures isn't it? He might be stressed by his reflection a bit. He is young and shouldn't flip out about seeing another cham..... but he might be a bit upset since it doesn't seem like he has good places to hide.

When i say hide, I don't mean.... sit under a leaf all day. I mean his 'range' or 'territory' has leaf coverage around it and he feels he can roam around in confidence.

Veiled chams are sorta like the class bully... tough in there own environment but a total puss when you take them out of the 'comfort' zone.

If someone says a cham doesn't worry about its own reflection.... they are nuts. Chams do not like other chams around, and can not tell their own reflection from another cham. Both my males lose their minds when they see their own reflection. One time I got Jake too close to the mirror and he head butted himself on the glass. I wasn't expecting it at all. He did some little shake and shimmy (never seen him do it before) and BAM! smacked his nose on the glass. I think we were both in shock.... I just didn't have a headache as I am sure he did.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Yeah you need some more coverage...

sorry this will sound negative... but that's one of 'those' plastic enclosures isn't it? He might be stressed by his reflection a bit. He is young and shouldn't flip out about seeing another cham..... but he might be a bit upset since it doesn't seem like he has good places to hide.

When i say hide, I don't mean.... sit under a leaf all day. I mean his 'range' or 'territory' has leaf coverage around it and he feels he can roam around in confidence.

The enclosure is mdf with glass fronts. There are ventilation holes at both the top and the bottom. I don't believe he sees his refelction, but that is something I will check. I was hoping to replace the glass doors with screen, but my boyfriend seems to think this is more complicated than it sounds, so we are working on it. He has only been this way since we took him out to clean. The plant is the full length of the enclosure, and covers about 50% of the cage area. When he wants to hide, he can and you can not find him! We have been trying to get some more plants, but every garden centre we have been to (about 10) is not stocking the ones we want at the moment. Apparently we have to come back in the spring!

 

[summoner12]

The enclosure is mdf with glass fronts. There are ventilation holes at both the top and the bottom. I don't believe he sees his refelction, but that is something I will check. I was hoping to replace the glass doors with screen, but my boyfriend seems to think this is more complicated than it sounds, so we are working on it. He has only been this way since we took him out to clean. The plant is the full length of the enclosure, and covers about 50% of the cage area. When he wants to hide, he can and you can not find him! We have been trying to get some more plants, but every garden centre we have been to (about 10) is not stocking the ones we want at the moment. Apparently we have to come back in the spring!

Can you show us some pics? is your UVB lamp inside the enclosure? Do you have a screen lid?

 

[WelshOneEmma]

The UV light is inside the enclosure. The lid is solid (we were told that this was the best type of cage for the UK-we now know that you can get screen ones!) and the light is at the back. The cage is 2ftx2ftx3ft high. We believe he will be big like his dad, so are looking at getting a bigger cage in a few months, and will then make sure we get exactly the right thing. We measure humidity and temp with a digital therm, humidity is between 50-60%, and basking spot is 30.5C, whilst the ambient temp is 23C. His lights go on at 8am, off at 9.30pm.

 

[blackbetty]

I was wondering the same thing. when I read your post you said he climbs on the WIRES..that screams problematic to me. I would be more worried that he will scald himself on whatever fixture you have inside the cage moreso than him going after your hand. Maybe you just startled him or caught him on a bad day.. We all have those. I wouldnt worry about it. Just be safe. I have found that using WHITE gloves tends to calm my cham down better than darker or bare handed.

Whats that big black box?

If possible, move the UVB (5.0 linear I hope) on top of the cage and put the basking in the same general area. easier and less confusing for the little cham.

Did you pick him up from the breeders? If so, did the breeder have gnarled hands? I imagine handling chams everyday would eventually get you a nasty bite that resembles Sanchos. (I think thats the one that Witchy got..)

And last q: Why so late with the lights going off? Is that the time of your sunset? I would regulate him to the times that mother nature would. Sunrise to sunset, 12 hours intervals.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

I was wondering the same thing. when I read your post you said he climbs on the WIRES...

There are so many wires in there and I hate it! Unfortunately we paid £350 for the set up, so if we can get away with using it for a few months we will, and then do it properly for his big boy cage. Sounds cheap i know, but with my boyfriend being made redundant we need to pay bills first.

There is the wire from the basking light (which is tight) and there is no where for him to burn himself on that. There is the heater thermometer wire (the long white one in the middle) that is pulled tight and then there is the wire attached to the UV light. I tried moving it so he couldn't climb on it, and he went mental and tried to climb on the UV light, so i figured for the moment it was better that we leave the wires for him to climb on. Thats why we added more vines, to get him off the wires (there were 4 vines in there before, now 6)

 

[blackbetty]

I hear ya on bills, believe me... I thin it looks nice otherwise.. Just be sure that your UVB is the proper kind (Not spiral) and that there is no interference between it and the cham other than the wire of the cage. It will not go through glass or plastic and if you have on that, then its pointless. Just give him some adjustment time. Check out the member galleries, people post their vivs all the time..or search through the enclosures forum. I get ragged ont aht my Viv doesnt have enough "coverage" yet I have 12+ plants and just as many vines.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Whats that big black box?

If possible, move the UVB (5.0 linear I hope) on top of the cage and put the basking in the same general area. easier and less confusing for the little cham.

Did you pick him up from the breeders? If so, did the breeder have gnarled hands? I imagine handling chams everyday would eventually get you a nasty bite that resembles Sanchos. (I think thats the one that Witchy got..)

And last q: Why so late with the lights going off? Is that the time of your sunset? I would regulate him to the times that mother nature would. Sunrise to sunset, 12 hours intervals.

Big black box is the heater. £110 never had to be used! But better safe than sorry. Can't move the lights as the lid is solid wood. UV is right at the back, basking towards the front and you can see the difference when one is off, so they are a good distanace apart. We did pick him up from the breeder, so says he handles his babies everyday, but i was just reluctant to do that, and the lights are 14 hours apart. If i were to do the natural lighting of this country, they would go on at 8 off at 6! The UK isn't known for it's sun!

 

[blackbetty]

Id still do 12 hour intervals. Id do 7-7 to be safe, but thats just me.

A heater? For?

yea, but the breeder is probably handling BABIES.. they arent as fearful yet and are more exploratory.. Handling causing stress. Ive been ragged on from carrying my Leo to a basking tree in the next room (I am visibly rolling my eyes).

So if you look in the cage, you would directly staring into the UVB light? Is there a way to cut a part of the roof out and cover in wire or mesh?

 

[summoner12]

Big black box is the heater. £110 never had to be used! But better safe than sorry. Can't move the lights as the lid is solid wood. UV is right at the back, basking towards the front and you can see the difference when one is off, so they are a good distanace apart. We did pick him up from the breeder, so says he handles his babies everyday, but i was just reluctant to do that, and the lights are 14 hours apart. If i were to do the natural lighting of this country, they would go on at 8 off at 6! The UK isn't known for it's sun!

Try putting the two lights closer together so he can bask in the rays of both lights. My concern with this, what kind of lamp is it? What brand, model? The front of the cage is bare in my opinion.

Can you see Fred? He can see you....

find him yet?

Here is a clue...

He'll sit and watch through the plants with no issues. He gets pissy when my hand is in there... he'll climb down and come out sometimes and hes very friendly when out of the cage. just don't mess with him inside....

The reason for the vine on the door? He used to climb on the screen ALLLLL DAY, up and down wandering around. So I put the vine there and he would cruise around on it. He still uses it a bit.. its used more for when I am putting him back into the cage. I place him near it and he reaches for it.. then i just close the door.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

We are planning to get more plants, but are going with real as he is a big fan of eating his plants. Like i said earlier, the plan is to replace this enclosure in a few months, and at present he can sit under the basking light and get his UV rays. I would move the light, but it is a bit difficult as it is screwed in to the ceiling, and would entail taking him out again and stressing him some more, which I don't want to do.

The heater is incase it gets cold at nights, which it can do in the UK, Like I said, it has not yet had to kick in, but I would rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.

 

[summoner12]

We are planning to get more plants, but are going with real as he is a big fan of eating his plants. Like i said earlier, the plan is to replace this enclosure in a few months, and at present he can sit under the basking light and get his UV rays. I would move the light, but it is a bit difficult as it is screwed in to the ceiling, and would entail taking him out again and stressing him some more, which I don't want to do.

The heater is incase it gets cold at nights, which it can do in the UK, Like I said, it has not yet had to kick in, but I would rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.

I understand about your situation. But I am still wondering about the model of uv lamp you are using.

 

[summoner12]

Id still do 12 hour intervals. Id do 7-7 to be safe, but thats just me.

A heater? For?

yea, but the breeder is probably handling BABIES.. they arent as fearful yet and are more exploratory.. Handling causing stress. Ive been ragged on from carrying my Leo to a basking tree in the next room (I am visibly rolling my eyes).

So if you look in the cage, you would directly staring into the UVB light? Is there a way to cut a part of the roof out and cover in wire or mesh?

A heater for...... Heating?

There isn't anything wrong with taking your Cham to a window for some heat basking... But he isn't getting any UVB. Plus from the pic I saw it seems he is cold...