Concern ???

[SSimsswiSS]

I was thinking about changing the crickets out of the cup and offering some Phoenix worms to see if that sparks anything in his appetite.

Might want to let two or three crickets loose in the cage. This usually sparks the hunter mode. I have chameleons that go wild when a free roaming cricket comes within there eyesight, and will just stare at a cup full of crickets in front of them.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hope everything turns out well in the end. Glad you found about about the UVB bulb before it was too late.

on another note, you said your crickets are " gut-loaded with assorted fresh veggie scraps...like carrot, celery, bell peppers, broccoli, apples and potatoes. Supplements - Calcium w/Vitamin D once every week. And Vitamin Supplement powder once a month"

I would remove the broccoli and celery from the gutload, add in yam, squach, dandelion leaves, kale.
Depending on what brand of Calcium wD supplement you are using, once a week is probably fine. But you will also want to include a phos.free calcium withOUT D3 (I happen to use Rep Cal but there are many brands) lightly dusted on pretty much all crickets. Not necessary for the pheonix maggots. And you might stimulate appeatite by offering different feeder options like silkworms, small hornworms, butterworms, cabbage loopers, moths, zhophoba /superworms, roaches, phasmidea, etc

 

[Dave Weldon]

...I turned it off yesterday afternoon...

...Did we inadvertantly cause my the little guy extensive damage and is there anything we can do for him or should do to try and nurse him back to health. Or should we just try and make him comfortable.
I guess I am asking the members here if they think there is any hope for recovery for him?..

Howdy Howie,

He has an excellent chance for a full recovery. His eyes are likely recovering from a case of reversible photo-kerato-conjunctivitis (snow blindness). Keep him hydrated (misting) and see what he'll eat. Since he didn't get burned to the point of blistering, I'd expect things to begin to turn around in another day or two. Add a Reptisun 5.0 linear 18" tube in a couple of days. For your particular situation, set it for about 12" away when new and then re-position it to between 6"-12" after a week or so.

Sorry if things sounded too scary about the R-Zilla tube but I didn't want there to be any hesitation to pull it, never to return into use. I think Petco should take it back even without any packaging.

There are a couple of issues, unresolved in my opinion, with the R-Zilla UVB products:

1.) They claim to have reformulated their phosphor to be safe but it is my understanding that this new formula has not yet been proven to be safe and effective by the reptile community .

2.) It is my understanding that there are no markings on the reformulated products to differentiate them from the old products, so who knows what's what .

The R-Zilla researchers had expressed genuine interest in producing and testing their new products to ensure that they don't have any problems this time. I'm waiting for test results. What's that phrase: "...twice burned..."

 

[kinyonga]

Howdyco...I use Rep-Cal calcium almost all of the time.

I hope that your chameleon will recover.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Howdyco...I use Rep-Cal calcium almost all of the time.

Me too, but you'll have to order it (w/ no D3) from LLL.
No one around here carries it, when I have asked about it I am told it's only for animals kept outside.
Plus you would get charged 4 times the price (including shipping)

-Brad

 

[Howdyco]

sandrachameleon - thank you I took your suggestion and switched out some of the fresh veggies/fruits I'll use. I was basing the use on family scraps and low and behold we eat alot of broccoli in the winter season. I never thought about the scraps til I came to this site. I try to follow your variety is good approach.

SSimsswiSS - thanks for the free range suggestion. I tried it yesterday and he did not go for them. I removed them for safety sake once he was asleep and put new ones in today. I also offered superworms in his cup today to see if that changes anything.
Nothing yet.
Thanks for the Cricket Crack. The crickets love it. And our other herpes are munchin' the crix with gusto.


Dave Weldon - You did the right thing by saying something and using the best graphic images possible. I appreciate the style and manner in which you handled this and the honesty in the likely outcome if he does not come around.

I made a horrible mistake and Flash is suffering for it. I can not reverse the damage I did. I can and will try to nurse the little guy back to health to the best of my ability. If I fail it won't be for lack of my compassion or effort.

Dave, I took your words to heart and hope everyone here does.

If there is not a STICKY thread on these lights/this particular product, I believe it might be in order. If this case (our mistake) can end up benefiting anyone else and/or any reptile/reptile owner, at least something postive will come from this.

kinyonga and Brad Ramsey - Thank You for the calcium advice I will order it today.

Just as an Update of sorts:
Flash has drank water twice yesterday and again this morning.
He is changing coloration mostly normally - dark/basking and lighter/mottled when elsewhere. He sleeps light pink and that hasn't changed.
He did make a small stool and urate after his second drink yesterday. The dark portion was notably smaller and the liquid larger but no real extra-yellowish part.
Basically he rests with his eyes closed and only opens them when I mist or when he knows we are there.

I apologize to Flash constantly and I and my family will do all we can for him.

I truely appreciate the advice, support and information you have all offered, including the time it takes to read and reply.

Howie

 

[panthercrazy]

Howdy, I understand your feeling of being a horrible parent all too well, please try not to beat yourself up. The unfortunate thing is that these products are being sold and as a consumer we would 'assume' that it is recommended and safe for the animals we are purchasing these lights for (assuming we follow correct instructions etc.)

I have a baby cham that went through exact same thing with the zilla lights. (I will show pic, in pic he has was placed in a tub to help with extra humidity with hopes that he pull through). I contacted zilla, they gave me all info I required and requested pictures & info from me. They replaced the 'old' bulbs I had for the 'new production' and showed me how to know if I had the old by the packaging. I did infact have the old style.

Will I use these again? NO, not only did I have chams suffer but I had Bearded Dragons burnt as well.

Another note to these lights, is the rack I have while installing my lighting (not myself a friend), when all was done he has sunburned his face! We chalked that up to him being inside the rack so closely to brand new bulbs. At least the animals were at proper recommended distances, however they still suffered.

Do I feel horrible? Absolutely! I feel terrible, sick to my stomach everytime I think about the unfortunate beardie babies and the suffering of those animals that pulled through. I completely understand your feelings.

Attached are pics of the old packaging I had, and the new label zilla states is on new packaging since reproduction. But as Dave W said there is no testing confirmed results. I will not use these again.

 

[lilacdragon]

Hi, Howdy, Dave and Panthercrazy, and other forum members.

I'm Frances Baines, from UV Guide UK.
Dave has been researching these lamps for a long time, and I've been trying to help him as best I can.

He's just emailed me about this latest problem and I have to say that I am still getting worrying reports about these lamps.
I've been testing the "new" versions and I'm keeping Dave informed about the results.. which I should complete, very soon.
In the meantime I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread about these lamps, and I can also confirm that the ZooMed ReptiSun linear tubes (although not their compact lamps) have a spectrum free from hazardous abnormally short-wavelength UVB and can be recommended.

I've only just joined the forum today in order to learn more about this continuing problem. I'd be very grateful, if anyone would like to share their story with me, (about any species), if they could email me privately with details and pictures, or send any information to me through Dave Weldon. I'm compiling an updated report for R-Zilla with my latest concerns.

With best wishes,

 

[Dave Weldon]

I'm Frances Baines, from UV Guide UK...

Howdy Frances,

It’s great to have you here following some of our adventures in chameleon keeping, especially regarding UVB.

Frances doesn't flaunt here credentials (unless it's to beat a parking ticket ) but just to let you know who's looking after our interests in UVB, it's Mrs. Frances M. Baines, M.A., Vet.M.B., M.R.C.V.S. She is also "UV advisor to the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquaria (BIAZA)'s Reptile and Amphibian Working Group." As she alluded to, Frances is one of the four main architects of the: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/aboutus.htm and is also a big contributor on the: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/.

Welcome!

 

[ponders]

Check out Reptile magazine's May UV article

There is a great UV article in the new magazine and the author is Frances M. Baines!

 

[Howdyco]

Thanks Everyone for all of the support and input.

I have sent Frances Baines the light for examination. Our family felt it was the least we could do to help document the R-Zilla lights and the damage they may cause. It is the least we can do at this point.

By way of an update, Flash has had some water each and every day. But it is minimal. His eyes remain closed 99% of the time and he remains in basking/sleeping positions.

He has been offered free range and cup foods, and we have hand offered him foods right to his snout. He has no interest in the bugs or eating. His eye turrets are starting to sink-in or he is holding them that way.

Two nights ago I carried him into the shower on a small shefflera and ran a luke-warm shower (90-93 degrees) to try and let him get some extra hydration that way. It was probably more stressful for him to be moved, but I felt he needed the attempt at extra hydration.
Attached are assorted pictures from the last two days.

I will continue to document this story for the forum members, and to help the research being done by Frances Baines and Dave Weldon.

Howie

 

[Howdyco]

Flash at 3:00 this afternoon (just two minutes ago) opened his eyes, crawled to the top of the cage and ate the house fly and one of the free-range cricket that were up there. He took a stroll out, let me hold him, then put him back, and he is now eyeing the other cricket in the cage and the wax-worms in a cup.

His eyes are partly open for now and he seems more active, at least for the moment. I am hoping he turned the corner and is enroute to healing and some level of recovery.

I will post further updates.

I also might ask as to how much food I should let him have just getting back to feeding?
If anyone has any opinion, please chime in.

Howie

 

[Sancho]

Flash at 3:00 this afternoon (just two minutes ago) opened his eyes, crawled to the top of the cage and ate the house fly and one of the free-range cricket that were up there. He took a stroll out, let me hold him, then put him back, and he is now eyeing the other cricket in the cage and the wax-worms in a cup.

His eyes are partly open for now and he seems more active, at least for the moment. I am hoping he turned the corner and is enroute to healing and some level of recovery.

I will post further updates.

I also might ask as to how much food I should let him have just getting back to feeding?
If anyone has any opinion, please chime in.

Howie

Feed him as much as he will eat.

 

[panthercrazy]

I hope too that your cham is on the uphill now.

I would let him eat what he is willing to eat and keep him hydrated as well. If he is eating (especially on his own) that is a good sign I would think.

That is good to hear he is opening his eyes as well.

 

[Howdyco]

Update

Flash has not eaten steadily but has eaten a single waxworm and 6-8 small phoenix worms during a cup-feed session this morning and I believe one free-range cricket yesterday.

He has been drinkly somewhat regularly when misted.

His eyes are open more now today but have been shut much of the time and he still is resting alot. He is weak, but you can tell he is trying to get-back-to a more normal routine.

Today we are going to have him looked at by a contact of Frances Baines who lives an hour away. This woman had several animals brought to her (she runs a reptile rescue) with similar conditions to Flash's and she was willing to drive up and see Flash today.

I will add another post later today with any comment she has on Flash, my set-up, the care I have been giving, and anything else I feel is relevant and may help someone else and their reptile from going through this.

Thanks Aagin for the Words of Support
Howie

 

[Howdyco]

Quick Update.

Flash ate 4 crickets plus the waxworm and phoenix worms yesterday morning.

After the visit from the reptile rescue lady several adjustments were made his habitat. Primarily the placement of the dripper was adjusted to be more easily accessed, and the basking lamp was moved from the side to top of the cage and the vines adjusted. He now has a slightly warmer 90-ish spot up high. He went up and flattened tight there for a long while after eating.

He actually gaped twice at me yesterday for "bothering him."

This morning he had a drink and is relaxing in the morning sunlight that filters in.

Hopefully his eating continues and he is turning the corner.

On another note, the R-Zilla fixture and bulb are now in the UK with Ms. Baines and should be tested soon. I'll post the results when I get them.

Howie

 

[blackbetty]

Howie, That is Awesome News!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Very good.
Was it the lady from Colorado Reptile Humane Society in Longmont who helped you?

-Brad

 

[panthercrazy]

That is wonderful news!! I am so happy for you guys!

 

[Howdyco]

Thanks blackbetty, panthercrazy and Brad Ramsey.

Brad Ramsey - the woman who came to see me was actually from the Colorado Springs area and she works extensively with Mountain Aire Reptile Rescue and Sanctuary. She is the person who cares for many of their geckos and chams until they are healthy.

It was nice to have someone look at him with some level of care experience and help evaluate the cage temps and humidity. She actually told me things looked good except for the basking temp which needed to come up a few degrees. And that I could make drinking easier for him by shifting a few ficus brances.

Flash ate some phoenix worms and crickets this morning again and seems to be slowly and steadily re-adjusting to life. He really likes the improved basking area.

I appreciate the moral support during a difficult time.
Howie