CLIMATE OF THE NATURAL HABITAT OF THE MIGHTY YEMEN CHAMELEON

[jamest0o0]

When I asked the question about the longevity of the Yemen chameleons in Europe I was hoping for a different kind of detail....like...in Europe...
What specific lights do they use? Where are they placed?
What supplements and how often for each?
What do they feed the insects and what insects (scientific names please) do they feed the chameleons?
When are the basking lights on and at what temperature is the basking area and is it at the top of the cage?
Etc. Etc.

I've literally talked to john courtney smith(european, someone that has been a guest on CBP multiple times) over PM on a different forum about supplementation. What he suggested wasn't much different than what they do here regarding that.

 

[kinyonga]

I've literally talked to john courtney smith(european, someone that has been a guest on CBP multiple times) over PM on a different forum about supplementation. What he suggested wasn't much different than what they do here regarding that.

Thanks @jamest0o0

 

[jamest0o0]

I have explained already
they keep them according to the climate in Yemen
Do not overheat them
Do not overfeed Them And keep them in enclosures on a average double size than in the US
It is illegal to let them suffer in bad conditions and rhe law is executed

Usually it seems people underheat them if we're going by their natural habitat. Almost everyone here has their cages at room temp or lower if they have AC with just a warm basking spot allowing them to choose that spot. I linked the exact place that you showed us in another thread and there is an average of 83 degrees at their hottest month, same here where I live, and half our month was in the 90s. So to just have a spot around 85-90 and the rest being 70s, I don't see how that'd be a huge problem. But I'm not against going lower either, just saying. (Btw with this said. I could understand the argument they're deeper in the forest or near a stream where it would be cooler, but then the daytime humidity would probably be higher too)

I do agree about the overfeeding. Overweight veileds are pretty common. Don't seem to see it as much with other species.

 

[PetNcs]

When I asked the question about the longevity of the Yemen chameleons in Europe I was hoping for a different kind of detail....like...in Europe...
What specific lights do they use? Where are they placed?
What supplements and how often for each?
What do they feed the insects and what insects (scientific names please) do they feed the chameleons?
When are the basking lights on and at what temperature is the basking area and is it at the top of the cage?
Etc. Etc.

you will be surprized, there is nothing extremely special, on contraryC
All simple
Rhey i. Principle 100% follow my care sheet or other way around, their care is fully reflected in my care sheet which is so strongly wuestioned in the US

the key issues:
Basking spot not higer than 80
Basking limited to two seberal minutes long periods per day
Nigjttime drop significant in the 60s, in winter in 50s
Simulating of low temp wintertime fir se eral
Months
No forcing females lay eggs several times per year
Pollen fed
Daily calcium fed
UV lamps often HQI or Linear T5HO
Size of the cage iminimum according to governmental guidelines, it means fir Yemen often 3,5ft by 4ft by 4 ft
Only living plants
Usually bioactive
Foggernin in ise, no spraying at daytime,
If st all only outside of basking lights on
Stapple food usually Grullus assimilis, often BSF
But not BSFL
Not handled at all
No experiments with complex and absurd gutloading, just wuality feeding of feeders and gutload with pollen

as I say,do not think they do something magic, they just Strictky follow meaningful guidelines and Yemens ezceeding 10yrars are a standard

 

[PetNcs]

Usually it seems people underheat them if we're going by their natural habitat. Almost everyone here has their cages at room temp or lower if they have AC with just a warm basking spot allowing them to choose that spot. I linked the exact place that you showed us in another thread and there is an average of 83 degrees at their hottest month, same here where I live, and half our month was in the 90s. So to just have a spot around 85-90 and the rest being 70s, I don't see how that'd be a huge problem. But I'm not against going lower either, just saying. (Btw with this said. I could understand the argument they're deeper in the forest or near a stream where it would be cooler, but then the daytime humidity would probably be higher too)

I do agree about the overfeeding. Overweight veileds are pretty common. Don't seem to see it as much with other species.

on contrary, Insee them heavily overheated with basking ligts baking them all day long.
Be xareful with reliable source of data about the climate. Even BBC server mistakenky does not show ibb but about 700km distant Saudi Arabian station Khamis Mushait woth much warmer weather.

moreover, with citing the weather you name, you refer to the three hottest months of the year only, the weather in the rest of the year is significantly colder,
So pardon me, but i really thinknit is absolutelyninadequat to take as benchmark for their wellbeint the hottest heather ever and add 5 degrees more and thi k thisnis optimum. Itnis not

it causes soeeeding the metabolism and early aging
Inevitably

 

[NashansCamos]

Basking spot not higer than 80

according to my weather on my phone its gonna be 84 tues and weds in ibb

 

[NashansCamos]

Almost everyone here has their cages at room temp or lower if they have AC with just a warm basking spot allowing them to choose that spot.

I vaguely remember @PetNcs said something about how veileds get confused because in the wild if they want to bask they go to the left or right of the tree to get the sunlight, not up and down. Can you explain more and am I remembering correctly?

 

[PetNcs]

according to my weather on my phone its gonna be 84 tues and weds in ibb

Vlimatic data differ
You might have unreliable source
Anyway, maxima ste never to be simulated do even if. Yo stay safe at 80 is adviseable

 

[PetNcs]

I vaguely remember @PetNcs said something about how veileds get confused because in the wild if they want to bask they go to the left or right of the tree to get the sunlight, not up and down. Can you explain more and am I remembering correctly?

sure
Why should the bush inhabiting chameleons climb up to bask? There is no rationale
They go tk the closest place where they are exposed to the sun, means to the side to get out of the shade of the bush. The tempnis same on basking spot 2m above ground and 20. Absolutely same

this is why they are confused in captivity when we force them to climb up for heat, as it is unnatiral.

actually, IMHO they climb ip more to get more ligjt as our cages are very dark at the bottom (the higher indoor xage, the darker down there) and get too much exposure to heat not eillingly just because of staying in the iluminaged - and heated area

 

[Hydra_cosplay]

Heya so I own a veiled as well, and from what I've been gathering from this post thus far that I want to be sure of is the basking. I need to be limiting the time my basking light is on correct?

 

[jamest0o0]

on contrary, Insee them heavily overheated with basking ligts baking them all day long.
Be xareful with reliable source of data about the climate. Even BBC server mistakenky does not show ibb but about 700km distant Saudi Arabian station Khamis Mushait woth much warmer weather.

moreover, with citing the weather you name, you refer to the three hottest months of the year only, the weather in the rest of the year is significantly colder,
So pardon me, but i really thinknit is absolutelyninadequat to take as benchmark for their wellbeint the hottest heather ever and add 5 degrees more and thi k thisnis optimum. Itnis not

it causes soeeeding the metabolism and early aging
Inevitably

I don't disagree with anything you're saying and I definitely agree with a lot of it. I just struggle to see how a small warm area would harm them so much if the rest is cool. It could simulate a sunny day where the light/heat is breaking through the trees, no? And usually cooler temps coincide with higher humidity from more trees/plants, I would think at least.

I do agree cage sizes are probably all too small recommendations.

Personally, I think bioactive is overlooked too much as just an option rather than a beneficial addition. I feel it would help their immune systems along with putting them at ease with a more natural setting. It's starting to catch on here slowly, but surely. I remember when I started bioactive I think almost 4 years ago almost nobody did it and a lot of people were still warning of its dangers. Cool to see how far we've come in just that time though.


Lastly I'll say, I think another big impact on shorter lifespans could just be the quality of veileds here. Our pet stores are mostly garbage. Many breeders are too. The animals come from unhealthy lineage, are nutrient deficient, etc..

 

[kinyonga]

I've literally talked to john courtney smith(european, someone that has been a guest on CBP multiple times) over PM on a different forum about supplementation. What he suggested wasn't much different than what they do here regarding that.

Thanks @jamest0o0

you will be surprized, there is nothing extremely special, on contraryC
All simple
Rhey i. Principle 100% follow my care sheet or other way around, their care is fully reflected in my care sheet which is so strongly wuestioned in the US

the key issues:
Basking spot not higer than 80
Basking limited to two seberal minutes long periods per day
Nigjttime drop significant in the 60s, in winter in 50s
Simulating of low temp wintertime fir se eral
Months
No forcing females lay eggs several times per year
Pollen fed
Daily calcium fed
UV lamps often HQI or Linear T5HO
Size of the cage iminimum according to governmental guidelines, it means fir Yemen often 3,5ft by 4ft by 4 ft
Only living plants
Usually bioactive
Foggernin in ise, no spraying at daytime,
If st all only outside of basking lights on
Stapple food usually Grullus assimilis, often BSF
But not BSFL
Not handled at all
No experiments with complex and absurd gutloading, just wuality feeding of feeders and gutload with pollen

as I say,do not think they do something magic, they just Strictky follow meaningful guidelines and Yemens ezceeding 10yrars are a standard

Thank you Petr....this is more what I was looking for!

When I first started keeping Yemen chameleons back in the 90's I worried that I wasn't keeping them warm enough but they did well with a basking temperature in the very low 80'sF and they did well with the lower amount of food I fed them as adults.
I still couldn't get the females to consistently live past 7 though...but I didn't use bee pollen Although I gutloaded the insects well with healthy veggies, greens, etc. I guess it wasn't enough. Very few people could keep them alive here then so I had nobody to learn from here...it was all by hook or by crook. I didn't run
afoggerat at night either. It took time to learn what worked and what didn't....sadly for the chameleons at the start...but I always told people what I did as I figured things out...so I may have "saved" a few too.

 

[cassiem263]

no let me be more explicit.

the IR source , basking spot lamp is the one to be limited to 2 hours daily while the UV source should be on (almost) all day.

the reason is:

they BASK short
but
they are exposed to UV of low levels whole day.

Thank you so much for all this information! There’s so much misinformation out there.

Anyway, I’m just wondering what you suggest with the lighting cycles of UVB and the seasons. I’ve only ever seen to keep that light on for 10-12 hours. Assuming that’s true, what time should I turn the lights on and off. I live in New England.

Can we bring this thread back to life? Again with so much wrong information out there it can be difficult to provide the correct environment for our chams. They deserve a good life!

 

[Mrjamwin]

Thank you so much for all this information! There’s so much misinformation out there.

Anyway, I’m just wondering what you suggest with the lighting cycles of UVB and the seasons. I’ve only ever seen to keep that light on for 10-12 hours. Assuming that’s true, what time should I turn the lights on and off. I live in New England.

Can we bring this thread back to life? Again with so much wrong information out there it can be difficult to provide the correct environment for our chams. They deserve a good life!

Hi there, I would attempt to time it when the sun comes up and when the sun goes down in your region. That's what I try to do.

 

[Sonny13]

CLIMATE OF THE NATURAL HABITAT OF THE MIGHTY YEMEN CHAMELEON





The Yemen Chameleon (Veiled Chameleon) is one of the most popular chameleon species in captivity today. Yet it is one of the mostly misunderstood and miss handled a Chameleons in captivity. Let us please finally understand it’s climatic requirements to make them comfortable and thriving in captivity and not suffering...



The Yemen chameleons live nowadays in Yemen and Southern Saudi Arabia.

As ferals, they live in many strong populations in Florida and few small populations in California. The former Hawaiian population on the Maui island has been eradicated by local authorities and for many years, there was no single sigting reported from there.



The Yemen Chameleons are very hardy, so that they can survive even a completely wrong care which is actually provided by a vast majority of keepers and breeders, because their natural conditions are completely misunderstood or even faked, many care sheets recommend conditions, under which the Yemen Chameleons suffer to death.



The Yemen Chameleon is a montane species that lives in an environment which is colder than the environment of the undisputed montane species - Three Horned Jacksons Chameleon! They occupy altitudes usually around 6000 to 7000 feet high in the mountains of Hejaz. The centre of the distribution of the original population, that served the source for captive population nowadays and for all ferals, is an area around the cities od Ibb and Yarim in Yemen.



The climate there is a very specific and undergoes a very significant cycling during the year. The warmest month is the month of June, when the temperatures rise to the level of about 80° at noon (not more!) and fall down to maximum 70° at night while in the winter time, they can fall to freezing point at night and not exceed high 60s at the daytime.



I am almost daily shocked with what an ignorance people still recommend to keep them at the basking temperatures around 95 to 100°F and recommend heaters at night to raise the temperature above 70s F. It is an absolute nonsense and this mistreatment of these animals in captivity results in their short lifespan. It has been demonstrated that they can live up to 16 years under ideal conditions in the captivity, while the average in the US stays between 3 to 5 years (counting only animals that reach maturity,

Nit the thousands of dead babies that are killed by whole-sellers in big pet store chains. If a Yemen chameleon reaches 7 years everyone is applauding. In Germany, it is a standard that on the strongly regulated and educated market they live normally 10 years and more.



The area where Yemen chameleons live is typical through uneven distribution of the rainfall during the year. There is the rainy season from April to September with a break in June and the dry season from October till March each year.



The lifecycle of the chameleons is strongly dependent on this type of weather so that:

they hatch in April

they grow up until reaching maturity in July, when

they mate and subsequently

they lay eggs in August.

Then, the dry season starts and in December almost all adult population becomes extinct due to the predation and exological pressure of the dry season.



The implication of this natural cycles to captivity are as follows. The species is extremely adaptable and can cope with big differences in the climate; this is why they are so tolerable to our mistakes in captivity. The best way how to keep them is of course to simulate the differences of rhe oarameters in the seasons accordingly and reflect them in the temperature regime provided both for juvenile and adult animals as well as for the incubation of eggs.



There is one very important fact to add. It is the distribution of the air humidity during the day. As you can see on the attached charts, during the daytime, the humidity drops deep under 30% and during late night hours, it raises high above 70%. This is the normalized ambient air humidity there. Once the dew point is close to the temperature of the air during the night, the clouds automatically fall down and build fog that covers the entire environment and in that moment the air humidity is 100% and the Chamaeleon sits for hours and hours in very dense fog. I remember that starting around 10 PM, you cannot usually continue a night search because you do not see anything due to the milky fog, and you need to turn back to your car otherwise you risk that you lose the way and will need to wait until the morning to find it.



The Kareef climatic anomaly, caused by special summertime monsoon (June-September) forming a special eco zone called fog woodlands and fog shrublands, does not apply to Yemen Chameleons or only marginally. The Arabian sea influences the DHOFAR mountains in Omans and Southern Yemen and not HEJAZ mountains in Central and Norther Yemen.



Another abiotic ecological factor, which is also heavily misunderstood, is the intensity of UV. As high-mountain dwellers, the Yemen Chameleons live in environments, which are exposed to UVI up to 17 in the middle of the day. The problem is, the chameleons are not exposed to that UV intensity, because at this part of the day, they sit deep in the bushes hidden in dense foliage and receive the UV only in the strengths of UVI 1 to 2 maximum. They bask early in the morning and late afternoon (at temperatures in low to mid 70s F and ag basking spot temps maximum 80’F), when the filtered sun by clouds delivers only UVI levels maximum 5 to 6, usually lower.

I was badly challenged by some people referring to videos from Yemen showing dominant males in the middle of the day sitting on the top of the trees at the mentioned high UVI levels, saying they are basking at noon. But this is not true. They are not basking they are exposing themselves and they are pancaking to show off and protect their territories and they are exposed to UV artificially: they actually pay a very high price for that. The extremely high UV damages their inner organs and exposure to UV, which is carcinogeneous and cytostatic first sterilizes them and then kills them subsequently so that they die young. It is therefore not the best idea to take as breeders the dominant males from the wild be it Yemen or Florida because they by definition will very likely do not do well. They have of course adaptations that allow them to protect them in certain extent, like the peritoneal high impregnation with Melanine, but it helps only partly.



Please, do not overheat the Yemen Chameleons, it is one of the main reasons, why they do not reach high age in captivity.



If simulating the rainy summertime, use the following temperatures:



Nighttime: 60s

Daytime ambient: low to mid 70s

Basking: 80’F maximum

Limit the basking to maximum one hour in the morning and same in late afternoon only. Do NOT bake them all the day under running basking lamps.



If simulating the dry wintertime, use the following temperatures:



Nighttime: 50s

Daytime ambient: high 60s, low 70s

Basking: mid 70s

Limit the basking to maximum 20minutes in the morning and same in the late afternoon only. Do NOT bake them all the day under running basking lamps.



During whole year, use the following humidity regime with soft transitions:



Nighttime: 100%, fog

Daytime: under 40%



Understanding natural conditions and natural history is the ultimate key for ethical captive naturalistic husbandry, that provides comfort to the Yemen Chameleons, which they deserve, according to Human Ethics, Animal Welfare principles, the law and common sense.



Please, let our noble fellows thrive and not suffer in our homes.





Picture legends:

1. Male C. calyptratus at Yarim
2. Male C. calyptratus at Ibb
3. Female C. calyptratus at Ibb
4. Mal of Yemen showing the position of the centre of distribution of C.c. in the Hejaz mountains
5. - 10. Climatological data

1. Khareef in Oman in July during daytime
2. Fog/clouds at Yarim in December in the dry season
3. Mist at Ibb in rainy season

Definitely one very interesting read, and thanks for sharing.

 

[Sonny13]

Thank you so much for all this information! There’s so much misinformation out there.

Anyway, I’m just wondering what you suggest with the lighting cycles of UVB and the seasons. I’ve only ever seen to keep that light on for 10-12 hours. Assuming that’s true, what time should I turn the lights on and off. I live in New England.

Can we bring this thread back to life? Again with so much wrong information out there it can be difficult to provide the correct environment for our chams. They deserve a good life!

Interesting, indirect I had same question in this thread, only not regarding UVB light and just the lighting cycle. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/skin-can-tell-if-its-day-or-night.182625/#post-1668821


Probably my question can be answered from field experience, pure out of curiosity.

kinyonga said:
We recommend 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness...is that what they get in the wild and when it's not, does it matter?

This is funny, I´ve been branded to ask a question regarding this matter.
Because I´ve noticed they keep their 12h rhythm, also during the summer. My cham lives and sleeps in our very bright living room (free-range), with natural (sun)light coming in by sunrise and leaves with sunset. Meaning that it already stays light for more then 2 hours after her lights go out at 07:00pm, still she will go to sleep within 30 till 45 minutes after the lights go out, while it´s still very bright in the living room.
And I´m really, really curious if they behave the same in the wild or if they keep awake till after sunset?

 

[cassiem263]

Hi there, I would attempt to time it when the sun comes up and when the sun goes down in your region. That's what I try to do.

Okay that’s kinda what I was thinking too. Since the sun will still be out at the end of the 12 hours maybe I’ll close the shades? Or I could have the lights on somewhere in the middle of that natural light period.

 

[cassiem263]

Interesting, indirect I had same question in this thread, only not regarding UVB light and just the lighting cycle. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/skin-can-tell-if-its-day-or-night.182625/#post-1668821


Probably my question can be answered from field experience, pure out of curiosity.

This is funny, I´ve been branded to ask a question regarding this matter.
Because I´ve noticed they keep their 12h rhythm, also during the summer. My cham lives and sleeps in our very bright living room (free-range), with natural (sun)light coming in by sunrise and leaves with sunset. Meaning that it already stays light for more then 2 hours after her lights go out at 07:00pm, still she will go to sleep within 30 till 45 minutes after the lights go out, while it´s still very bright in the living room.
And I´m really, really curious if they behave the same in the wild or if they keep awake till after sunset?

I love that your Cham is free range. Mine is too! I’m moving to a new place and the room he will be in is very bright. I’m wondering if I’ll put shades up to block out the light when his lights turn off. Maybe it’s because of all the light in the room, that your Cham stays awake longer?

 

[Sonny13]

I love that your Cham is free range. Mine is too! I’m moving to a new place and the room he will be in is very bright. I’m wondering if I’ll put shades up to block out the light when his lights turn off. Maybe it’s because of all the light in the room, that your Cham stays awake longer?

Mine doesn’t stay awake. She goes to sleep within 30-45 min after the lights turn off, just like she does during the dark winter times. The bright lights doesn’t seem to bother her.

 

[CasqueAbove]

Mine doesn’t stay awake. She goes to sleep within 30-45 min after the lights turn off, just like she does during the dark winter times. The bright lights doesn’t seem to bother her.

Mine seem to go by the day cycles as well. Even if I forgetand leave a room light on, or if I haven't adjusted for seasons. They head for bed at the same time and it is usually mid evening or 1 hr before sundown.