Chameleon with bad balance and signs of URI

Well it seems as though I was meant to get a taste of how my little guy is feeling, over that last few days I had a nice battle with the flu. I'm sorry for not getting to it sooner but I finally made it on here.

Over the weekend he seemed to be doing alot better he was uniform color and he looked to be having an easier time of breathing. Today was the last day for the turbinafine and yesterday the last of the chloro. He is still not breathing normally, he will for a while then he goes back to gasps. On a positive note, he is still eating well if I put it in his mouth. His tail function is still extremely strong and his grip as well. His hydration seems to be good, even though his eyes appear sunken, I am thinking form stress as they seem very full when he is sleeping but sink after he wakes. I have been giving him sub q fluids to make sure and I'll tell ya, his skin does not stay tented long at all.

Dr O, I appreciate your input. I am still working on getting access to the x-ray, its an old film style and it was sent out. It should be back shortly, and I am hoping to hear something tomorrow. In addition to the possible fluid in the lung, which I honestly couldn't see myself, there was a spot that looked my vet said was possibly air in the intestine or bowel. Thinking back I think it may have been higher up in the abdomen. As soon as I can I will post a pic of it here, I do have some of him as well to add tonight.

I could not get a really good pic of the split coloration because he has stopped doing it for the most part. The one pic of his head is the best I could do. They were taken right after "lights on", that is really the only time he has done it since he started the turbinafine. When he first started it it was much more defined. His left side looked relaxed and dark, and his right was bright like he was showing off. Now for the most part he keeps both sides of his body the same, just the head mostly does the split color.

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The black spots on his side started as a little brown discoloration near the spine and progressed over a few days to that and had not changed much. **The coloration extends further up towards his spine than the camera is showing.

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The last picture shows how he likes to stand, he can be straightened out, but slowly moves back to that position.

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I dunno what else to go on now. One thing I noticed is he doesn't seem to expand his right side very much when he inhales. Given his fall initially, the black spots on his side, the x ray showing air in his abdomen and possibly fluid in his lung, I am really starting to suspect that his right lung is either fully or partially collapsed. His lean to the left would give the right lung as much room as possible to expand, but that wouldn't help much if air was trapped behind it. I know this condition can happen in human, Pneumothorax, just not 100% about reptiles.

Wiki article on pneumothorax

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumothorax


Alot seems to fit with what he has going on. I plan on talking with my vet about it tomorrow or Friday whenever she is in next, to see what she feels, and maybe catch the x-rays still at the expert and have him take a look for that as well.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, prayers and input. I am feeling better again so if anyone has any more questions I should respond much quicker.
 
Found this pic earlier and I thought it was really cool. It shows the lung of a chameleon with its finger like projections expanding out of an incision made to spay a chameleon.

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I guess I just never realized exactly how thin the lungs are in these guys....
 
I am still following your post- fingers XXX - hope you are also feeling better- the flu is NO fun - dont give up = I know it can be draining on you both mentally and financially ( I have been there :( ) but we are all here for you
please keep us posted
best of luck :)
 
Thanks for the update. Glad you are feeling better! I think you are on the right track with what is wrong with your little one, and hope he makes a full recovery. Keep us informed and we'll keep you in our thoughts! :)
 
Found this pic earlier and I thought it was really cool. It shows the lung of a chameleon with its finger like projections expanding out of an incision made to spay a chameleon.

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I guess I just never realized exactly how thin the lungs are in these guys....


that is really a tremendous photo——i have always tried to put into words just how delicate and thin their lungs are, much thinner than saran wrap, and this photo shows it perfectly. so just imagine how easy it is for even the mildest of infections to cause severe damage to the lung and it’s surfaces. and as we have seen many times before, even if antibiotics or whatnot kills off the bacteria or other offensive organism, often the damage done is pathologic enough to have detrimental or fatal consequences.

i will be using this photo over and over again when these threads come up. i think it really helps to put things into perspective.
 
I have been giving him sub q fluids to make sure and I'll tell ya, his skin does not stay tented long at all.


what type/volume/and frequency of fluids are you using?


i am very happy to hear that he is still willing to eat. he’s a fighter!! i still do believe this is a likely stroke secondary to his lung issues, even more so after seeing your photographs. sadly, i doubt that he will ever return to 100% normal function, but your TLC and the continued necessary medications can still give him a good quality of life if we can get him through this critical period. in the wild, he probably wouldn’t even be here right now so i’m very happy to see you caring for him so intently. good job! :)

we are all still following along and wishing you and he nothing but the best!
 
I have been offline for a couple days as well and missed this post entirely, til now! Wow! This is all quite perplexing and I am sad to hear your panther is unwell. I have nothing to add, but am very interested in what is wrong with your guy - I have a female veiled that is experiencing *some* of the same symptoms but an x-ray showed clear lungs while a fecal showed no parasites.

I will keep an eye out for any news on this post and keep you both in my prayers. Your guy is lucky to have someone willing to go the extra mile with him, so please know I wish you good luck!

ps: does he have a name? :)
 
my thoughts are with you and your cham buddy!!!! i hope this mystery is solved soon and he makes a recovery, he's very lucky to have an owner so determined to bring him back to health! stay strong!
 
Thanks again everyone for the wishes, thoughts and prayers. Some nights I think its really helped him out, last night was a rough one for him. Yesterday was the first day of no meds except metacam. He definately seemed stronger and more alert while on the turbinafine and chloro. I have made an appointment for tomorrow, if for nothing else than to get some photos of the xray. On speaking with another of the vets at my vets office, he works closely with the buffalo zoo on their exotic animals, he advised me to continue the turbinafine past the 7 days. I gave him some early this morning and he does seem much more comfortable today. I did find the largest "chunk of junk" I have found so far in his mouth this morning, I can only assume it was related to his relative distress all yesterday. I took a few pics of it.....

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Any pink or red coloration you see is from the turbinafine. It was administered through a small insulin style dropper so I am 100% sure it was not from the meds, that came from him. The rest of the pieces were all very similar in color and consistency, very sticky and stringy but returns to form. It is very similar to gelatin in its form.

what type/volume/and frequency of fluids are you using?

His weight is 94 grams. I was wondering about the metacam dosage earlier and you had asked for his weight. I figure it will fit well into this answer as well.

I have been using lactated ringers for the sub-q injections, at most I have been doing 1cc every three days. Since his eyes are sunken presumably from stress I have been using his skin to judge his hydration. By tenting it and seeing how long it takes to go back down. If it stays for more than 20-30 seconds then I have been giving a shot of sub-q. I have been alternating running an ultrasonic and warm vapor humidifier in the room with him, I dont think he is loosing too much fluid daily with through evaporative means. I try to keep him around 88-90 for 4-6 hours daily then drop him to low 80. If you have any suggestions on anything here please let me know.

Aside from that I have been giving him ro water and pedialite whenever he is able to get it down. With his still showing signs of the URI it isn't the easiest thing to get fluids in through his mouth. I have found that feeding him directly after and then helping him push the food down greatly helps this situation.

ChameleonMom, He does have a name, thanks for asking. My old man named him, anyone that knows where he came from will get the name... He is Mr. 750

Again thank you to everyone keeping him in their thoughts and prayers. I will do my best to get up some pics of his xrays tomorrow.
 
Well I made it to the vet yesterday and took some pictures of the xrays. Conditions weren't all that great and my camera was not cooperating, this is the best I got of the three xrays that were done intially.

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The film for the last one was extremely dark and you can see the reflection in the photos, that is the best I was able to get.

Im going to continue this with another post because I have more pictures to add...


** The piece of junk I took pictures of was also take in to the vet. It looks to be just a mass of proteins, probably from saliva, and skin cells all gummed up together.
 
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Now that the easy stuff is out of the way....

On Friday after I made my post I went in to check on him and his legs and tail were starting to shed. I've noticed that, aside from their eyes, these are just about the most annoying places for a shed to linger. I waited for the skin to turn totally white then I started to help remove it. I did this over the course of 5 or 6 hours and it all removed very easily, I only did this to keep it from stressing him out even more.

While in the process of removing the skin I felt something that made me cringe. Anyone that have ever had a broken bone know what I am taking about. The feeling of bone sliding on bone. It was on his right side, basically where the first ribs that connect to their "sternum", dunno if its the same for them. I palpated a little more and felt it again, I also noticed considerable deflection of the area when compared to the other side. So I head to the vet with a pretty good idea of where and what to look for in the xrays, but as you just saw the angles were not very good for viewing that area.

A few more were taken however we were not able to get a clear enough picture of that area to make a definitive diagnosis. Pictures were taken of all of them xrays, 7 views in total, and sent out to another expert. I was supposed to get the same email with the photos but there must have been an issue with the mail servers. When I do get the pics Ill post them as well.

My vet palpated the area and agreed that it could quite possibly be something broken in the area. Going on that premise we had agreed to try something a little more for the pain. He has been receiving metacam, as I stated before it really seemed to aid him in his breathing. Metacam is an NSAID it is in the same family of drug as asprin or ibuprofen, not exactly what you would want to come home with for a broken rib. So I came home with a new pain med for him, Tramadol.

Tramadol is an opiate derivative, a serious and powerful pain killer. And in my experience with him over the last two days one scary freaking drug. He will not be getting it again after tonight, I am going to have to find him something else.

First off let me say I do think we are finally on the right path with him. I administered the tramadol for the first time yesterday and it was the first time since this has started that he actually moved either of his from limbs to the right. After a few hours he also started to stretch out fully and breathe deeply, using both sides of his body while on the tramadol. The most startling and immediately apparent effect of the tramadol was this.

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This picture was taken today after his second dose to show the effect, his color is very off and I will get to that shortly.

The black marking on his side was very pronounced yesterday after returning from the vet, presumably from the palpations. Within 20 minutes of getting the tramadol the black mark on his side had started to fade. The black marking had reappeared by this morning, and faded again after his second dose when I took the previous picture.

So I think finally something is working for this guy. Then he gets his dose today and I really thought I was going to loose him. I took this picture to show the area and the bones that seem to be effected but it play in well to this part of the story.

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The arrow in the middle points to the bumps that seems to be where a rib should be connected. The other two are just pointing to ribs that show significant deflection.

One side effect of opiate drugs is dry mouth and he definately started out with that. His tounge kept sticking to his mouth and he was having a horrible time with it. I got that under control and snapped that picture. Next he exhibited extreme respiratory distress for about an hour. He began to curl himself tightly to the left, he had a few muscle spasms while in this position. I picked him up and looked at his eyes, his pupils were going from pin point to fully dialated. I have see this before as a cham is dying. I started getting really scared at this point. I watched him for 10-15 minutes and it stopped. I come back in about 15min after it stopped and its going on again and now his color is really really bad. The color of the front circle had flushed over his entire body from the lateral line up. The white color in the rear circle started to radiate outward from that area. I ran downstairs to fill a syringe with ringers lactate to attempt to dilute the meds in his system. As I was warming it up in my hands the bleached color stopped its progression then began to recede. The dramatic color change lasted about 35-40 minutes. I opted not to give him the fluids and set him down. After another 30 minutes he stretched out again and began to breathe much more normally. It was the most nerve racking 4 hours I have had in a while. He is sleeping stretched out fully and looks to be quite comfortable atm.

So yea, I really do feel we are finally on the right track. I just cannot continue with the tramadol and the metacam doesn't seem to be strong enough. I am going to see what other options there are tomorrow.

If anyone actually made it through all that I will leave it open to any questions, comments or opions.

Thank you everyone for the continued thoughts and prayers.
 
i made it thru all that and can only imagine how nerve racking all of that was.. hope that the next vet visit sheds some light on whats going on and you and the vet find a medication in between the tramadol and metacam that will help him out.
 
I hope that you've found something else to help Mr 750 .
The poor cham must be in considerable pain.
Thanks for your updates on him.
 
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