Chameleon in a dire situation.

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I have a feeling that you were not given a chameleon like this. No one in there right mind would be giving away near death chameleons at expos especially if they're trying to sell them. Your story has changed from given to bought at the expo. You claim age is a factor now, but you said you had no problem driving for your other chameleons before? You say you have experience in chameleons, but you are unfamiliar with what MBD looks like? That's Herpatology 101 my friend. MBD is not inclusive to chameleons, but all reptiles. We have given you the answers you're just not listening. And the only people that don't listen and change their stories like you in my experience are teenagers... My belief is you caused this. You may have bought her at the expo, but she didn't look like this! You thought, "she could live in this" not knowing the care requirements that a cham needs to thrive and survive. You only have one option here.
1. You take her to a vet they diagnose her and tell you what it will take to save her life or if they even could. At this point the damage is done!

 

[Beman]

I hate to rain on y’alls fun but this is not the place to carry on a personal convo of this nature... we have kids that are members and this is not appropriate.

 

[bay1997]

I hate to rain on y’alls fun but this is not the place to carry on a personal convo of this nature... we have kids that are members and this is not appropriate.

This keeps happening with these same members. It’s getting increasingly inappropriate and I’m glad you spoke up Becca.

 

[KobaOregonherper]

Before reading: keep in mind that that the chameleon is in a condition, specified below, that may or may not justify the unusual conditions. I also must stress that I cannot go to the vet for financial, location, and age reasons.

Type: Female Veiled chameleon, about a year to a year and a half old.

Handling: Haven't had her long enough to handle very much, but doesn't seem to mind or even move while I handle her . To me this is a bad sign since she should be somewhat alerted when i touch her . (he does change color with no noticeable movement.

Feeding: I am planning on feeding her through a syringe, I have given her food including crickets, horn worms, meal worms, and super worms. I have tried a few feeding techniques including force feeding, but to no avail. I plan on using crickets and mixing with the specified supplements after I figure out a plan. I am gut loading with carrots and some fluker's calcium.
Supplements: I am planning on putting calcium without D3 and vitamins when I syringe feed her . I don't know the ratio or if this is a good idea, so please, if you can, tell me how much of each i should have in the syringe when I feed her .

Watering: I mist her cage about every hour, there is always water on the leaves, but i do not know her previous situation.

Fecal description: Have not seen her poop yet. I am also not sure, since she can't move, how i will deal with her poop, since i don't want her to smear it on her self. (Some ideas would be gratefully appreciated.)

History: I was given this chameleon during an animal show and was told she was having some issues growing and eating, I was given her for free and after a few days of not eating and barely drinking, she started to have issues with walking (Though I am almost sure she has some form of gout on her back legs) she also spends a lot of her time with her eyes closed, and doesn't seem to flinch or move no matter what I do. Sometimes I wonder if she is dead. I understand, especially without access or money for a vet, she will probably die, but I want to do the best I can to try to save her . (I have had chameleons before and they lived to be happy, and healthy)

Cage Info:

Cage: Glass and about 8 inches by 18 inches by 11. I understand that this is not suitable for a chameleon, and I have a much bigger screen cage, but due to what i expect is dehydration, along with her inability to climb trees, it is the best option i have as it is shallow (in case of a fall) and it is glass so water is trapped much better.

Lighting: I have a UV bulb that is very close to her, I turn of the light at 8 and turn it on at 8 so I doubt it is an issue.

Temperature: currently I have a heat mat that, again, won't be used if I get her back to health. A heat lamp heats up the glass enclosure to much, and a heat mat is a lot easier to control and harder for her to burn herself on, the area she sits in is around 85 degrees, but since she can't move much at all, I don't think a higher temperature would be very safe for her.

Humidity: I spray her so often, and I see so much water, that humidity couldn't possibly be an issue, though before I received her I'm not sure what the conditions were.

Plants: No live plants because if she did climb I wouldn't want the risk of it breaking, though I do have live plants in her permanent cage I will put her in if she survives.

Placement: I place her about 3 feet off of the ground in my room in a very low traffic area, i do my best to maintain airflow using a slow fan since she is in a glass tank.
Current Problem:

1. I need to know how to deal with a few issues, she won't eat anything so I plan on syringe feeding her a mix of the calcium, vitamins, and crushed crickets. (If you have a better idea please tell me) I also need to know how to syringe feed.

2. How can I give her the ability to cleanly poop.

3. What might be causing her back legs to not work. (And if it is gout how to deal with it).

4. If being egg bound or pregnant could be causing the issues. (I have supplied her with a laying bin that was appropriately sized and I never saw her digging or showing any signs of pregnancy)

5. Does she look over/under weight. (i'm currently trying to get access to a scale and if I get one I will definitely post results.)

6. Does she possibly have MBD.

Something to consider: she can't walk or stand, so a hammock was the only way I could think of keeping her off the ground. When I hold her she always seems to play dead so that will explain the closed eyes while I hold her, you will notice when she is just sitting there she has her eyes opened. I will also do my best to update everyone on her status over the next few weeks.

D3 needs only be given every 2 weeks. Amount? The amount you would put on 8 crickets give or take, not really an exact measurement.

1. Syringe feeding is hard. If you find a better way other than just getting her to gape please share

2. The poop wont be clean till shes eating and drinking naturally, just try and make sure the urates are white and the poops aren't full of bug parts, so ce you're using a syringe this shouldnt be a problem. Diarrhea is to be expected.

3. Weakness from MBD

4. Possibly If she were egg bound and that was the issue shed be turning very dark or very bright colors and not eating, but otherwise quite aware. But anything is possible here.

5. Neither, chameleons are very good at hiding this till the time they basically die.

6. She has MBD which I believe is the cause.

Honestly, I appreciate what you did trying to take the chameleon and care for her, I want to know who gave you the chameleon so I can rip them a new one. I know people telling you that shes not going to make it is getting old, but it is very very unlikely...

 

[jamest0o0]

I hate to rain on y’alls fun but this is not the place to carry on a personal convo of this nature... we have kids that are members and this is not appropriate.

I read page 1 and 2, then skipped to the last page and was like WTF did this thread turn into.

I hate to be so negative, but I see no hope other than comfort measures for this animal. The fact she was kept in such horrible conditions makes me skeptical she was really given away like that, but I'll take OP for their word. These pictures of this animal suffering are a direct result of veileds being cheap to buy. If the other cham species become more common/continually drop in price, be ready to see more threads like this.

 

[Brad]

Some off topic posts were deleted. Please remember to stay on topic even if you already offered good advice.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Damn, I missed the good stuff!

@SidneyJohnsonPhil, don’t know if your still around or not...

Man up and kill her. PM me and I can walk you through it. There will be no pain, no panic, she will just gently fall asleep.

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

Damn, I missed the good stuff!

@SidneyJohnsonPhil, don’t know if your still around or not...

Man up and kill her. PM me and I can walk you through it. There will be no pain, no panic, she will just gently fall asleep.

I decided to bring her to the vet about 80 miles away, but like I said yesterday, she wasn’t going to survive the drive. The bumps of the ride were too much and killed her.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

I decided to bring her to the vet about 80 miles away, but like I said yesterday, she wasn’t going to survive the drive. The bumps of the ride were too much and killed her.

She was going to die 1 way or another. I'm sorry she was just way too far gone for anyone even an experienced vet to save.

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

Is there a way to close a thread? I’m trying to find it but can’t.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Is there a way to close a thread? I’m trying to find it but can’t.

Admin only. @Brad @Decadancin

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

Either way ima get a new chameleon that is healthy in the next few weeks.

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

I have a feeling that you were not given a chameleon like this. No one in there right mind would be giving away near death chameleons at expos especially if they're trying to sell them. Your story has changed from given to bought at the expo. You claim age is a factor now, but you said you had no problem driving for your other chameleons before? You say you have experience in chameleons, but you are unfamiliar with what MBD looks like? That's Herpatology 101 my friend. MBD is not inclusive to chameleons, but all reptiles. We have given you the answers you're just not listening. And the only people that don't listen and change their stories like you in my experience are teenagers... My belief is you caused this. You may have bought her at the expo, but she didn't look like this! You thought, "she could live in this" not knowing the care requirements that a cham needs to thrive and survive. You only have one option here.
1. You take her to a vet they diagnose her and tell you what it will take to save her life or if they even could. At this point the damage is done!

I don’t really know why I’m defending this. But I never said I bought her. I also do know requirements. And I originally had her in an enclosure that is more suitable. But it didn’t work. She kept falling and since she couldn’t move I had to keep the cage a lot more humid. I 100% may have put her in a terrible situation, but I was never told what to do given my situation. I was told to bring her to the vet, and like I had already said, she couldn’t handle the drive.

 

[JacksJill]

May she rest in peace.
Disinfect everything before you start over. If your supplements are old or out of date get fresh ones. Take time to perfect your setup. Don't let anyone suck you into getting a rescue that is beyond your abilities. Not that you would do that again.
Note: If you breed or sell chameleons people will come out of the woodwork to surrender their failing chameleons to you. It is entirely possible that this vendor got something like that and passed it on to the OP.

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

MBD also plays a big factor in egg binding, look it up yourself OP. It’s a symptom of MBD. As you have said multiple times, no one is answering your questions... the reason being is that with this Cham being in such severe conditions, answering questions here won’t help, neither can you help this Cham, you need proper vet caring that specializes in chameleons. Now I understand you said there’s financial reasons and age reasons and why you are not able to take this chameleon to the vet. But I must ask, if you knew you couldn’t financially pay for medical expenses for the chameleon knowing the crappy shape she’s in then why get her? Yeah yeah, I know you felt bad but why put yourself through the trouble, I’m all for rescuing for chams. But this. This is just suffer. She’s dead basically. Not trying to be mean I’m just trying to be appropriate, mature, and honest.

I should have looking back, it was a spur of the moment thing knowing that she wouldn’t be there next time, and I’m sure the odds of survival weren’t much better with the vender

 

[Graves923]

Im gonna be that guy.... If you were having trouble getting this chameleon to a vet for financial reasons, I would suggest waiting before getting another chameleon until you can atleast set up a small savings for any emergencies that may arise. I made an envelope and put aside $10 or so each pay check for a few months just to make sure I have acouple hundred bucks in case I need to take any of my animals to a vet and it did come in handy once already for my cham.

I skimmed through this thread and didnt read anything besides the original post and the last few.

I would also recommend making a post detailing the enclosure and supplies before receiving another chameleon. We often read about new keepers that say "my cage is good and everything" then they post a photo and its a fish tank with a cactus in it.... (Yes, i am over exaggerating but not that much)

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

Im gonna be that guy.... If you were having trouble getting this chameleon to a vet for financial reasons, I would suggest waiting before getting another chameleon until you can atleast set up a small savings for any emergencies that may arise. I made an envelope and put aside $10 or so each pay check for a few months just to make sure I have acouple hundred bucks in case I need to take any of my animals to a vet and it did come in handy once already for my cham.

I skimmed through this thread and didnt read anything besides the original post and the last few.

I would also recommend making a post detailing the enclosure and supplies before receiving another chameleon. We often read about new keepers that say "my cage is good and everything" then they post a photo and its a fish tank with a cactus in it.... (Yes, i am over exaggerating but not that much)

I’m going to wait until a few weeks, it shouldn’t take me too long to get money saved up. On top of that, if you didn’t read, I have had chameleons before that lived good and long lives. I do need some new light bulbs and a linear bulb, but besides that everything should be suitable.

 

[Beman]

I don’t really know why I’m defending this. But I never said I bought her. I also do know requirements. And I originally had her in an enclosure that is more suitable. But it didn’t work. She kept falling and since she couldn’t move I had to keep the cage a lot more humid. I 100% may have put her in a terrible situation, but I was never told what to do given my situation. I was told to bring her to the vet, and like I had already said, she couldn’t handle the drive.

I would like to point out that I did specifically recommend you listen to the chameleon breeder podcast. I also recommended a hospital bin being set up and the proper lighting. You were given other feedback besides her needing proper treatment from a qualified Vet. I think it is extremely important when caring for these animals that a person have access to a Vet and the funds to carry out the care should a situation arise.

 

[SidneyJohnsonPhil]

I would like to point out that I did specifically recommend you listen to the chameleon breeder podcast. I also recommended a hospital bin being set up and the proper lighting. You were given other feedback besides her needing proper treatment from a qualified Vet. I think it is extremely important when caring for these animals that a person have access to a Vet and the funds to carry out the care should a situation arise.

I was working on lighting and in the end I did bring her to the vet. She didn’t survive the drive though. I was suggested some stuff but I think most of it was a little inapplicable. I do appreciate your response in particular. So thank you.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I don’t really know why I’m defending this. But I never said I bought her. I also do know requirements. And I originally had her in an enclosure that is more suitable. But it didn’t work. She kept falling and since she couldn’t move I had to keep the cage a lot more humid. I 100% may have put her in a terrible situation, but I was never told what to do given my situation. I was told to bring her to the vet, and like I had already said, she couldn’t handle the drive.

, but I was sold her knowing she was extremely unhealthy. The guy that sold her to me

The vender sold her telling me she was in bad condition.

If all of the other chameleons were healthy I would have assumed there was a genetic or more complicated issue at play and wouldn't have bought her

You certainly did say you bought her, don’t play dumb with us. I’ve always thought that if you were sold something that means you bought it.