Chameleo montium and Jacksons?
- Thread starter Hilikus311
- Start date
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
I have only ever recommended 10.0 if someone is using a reptarium due to the density of the mesh.
I appreciate the "better safe than sorry" attitude, but it doesn't apply here.
You have had good luck because you are free ranging and your chameleon can move far away from the UVB light.
Recommending a 10.0 for a montane species in a mesh cage without specific personal experience/research is at best cavalier.
5.0 is the safest, most accepted and most successfully used linear bulb.
-Brad
I appreciate the "better safe than sorry" attitude, but it doesn't apply here.
You have had good luck because you are free ranging and your chameleon can move far away from the UVB light.
Recommending a 10.0 for a montane species in a mesh cage without specific personal experience/research is at best cavalier.
5.0 is the safest, most accepted and most successfully used linear bulb.
-Brad
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
I would love to say I have a UVB meter...but how many people actually do??? I've never claimed I'm an expert nor am I a breeder. I only have my one Jackson's that is doing very well in his free range with a 10.0 UVB. If he was in a smaller enclosure with very little room to roam I would probably have a 5.0 UVB depending on where his basking perch was located and how thick the screen was that the light has to penetrate through. But, my Jackson's has the whole living room as a cage so I use a 10.0 so he can get what he needs when he is basking. As I said in my last post, the amount of UVB depends on how far away the basking perch is from the UVB light source. It says right on the Repti Sun package how much UVB should be used. If it's really close use a 5.0 if it's father away use a 10.0.
If the cham seems to be having a problem with their eyes then definitely use a lower level UVB. But, most MBD is irreversible and usually is attributed to lack of UVB because without enough UVB the cham can't maintain healthy levels of calcium and D3. Brad, I'm certainly not saying that you are wrong in any way..I'm absolutely agreeing with you, but I also think that the cage set up also determines how much UVB is needed.
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
Also, I just noticed that you live in Texas. If you plan on taking your chams outside for natural sun every once in a while which is soooo good for them I would go with the 5.0 UVB. If they aren't going to get outside much then I would go with the 10.0 UVB.
Brad, you can see here that I recommended a 5.0
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
Have a great time with your new chams. You'll love them. I love my Jackson's because of the horns "of course" and his gentile personality. He's very sweet.
Best of luck and enjoy them!!!
Natalie
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
But only if the chameleon is going to be spending time outside.
All I'm saying is that 10.0 is very likely overkill for the species in question and they need to be able to get outside of the range of radiation.
For a montane animal that is contained 100% of the time, I would not recommend a 10.0, regardless of how many inches away the basking perch is.
-Brad
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
I guess, my worry is that on the forum we hear of so many cases of chams that are in trouble with MBD by the time they're 6 mos old and a lot of it can be attributed to not enough UVB, the wrong type of UVB (spiral type) or misplacement of UVB (not close enough to the cham). A lot is from inexperienced new cham owners. Rarely do we hear of eye problems because of too much UVB. So, you're right, I do tend towards overkill. You're a very experienced cham owner and know exactly where to place the UVB and how much is needed. I think a lot of people don't and at least if they have a 10.0 that is positioned wrong..their cham will get enough UVB as apposed to a 5.0 that isn't close enough to their cham. From what I've read, eye problems are noticeable very quickly and if the light source is moved away the eyes will "usually" (I'm not saying all the time) recover very quickly compared to MBD which is a slowly occurring disease that has very little chance of recovery and by the time it's noticed it's usually to late. So, I guess I tend toward higher UVB as apposed to Lower UVB because it seems like MBD is hugely occurring and is the leading cause of cham deaths as compared to eye problems.
Hilikus311
New Member
Thanks to the both of you for your input. I value your experience Brad and always am willing to take your advice. You have been very helpful JaxyGirl, your kindness is shown by the way you are willing to answer my questions without complaint, for that I thank you.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
I'm not sure you're understanding that these animals need to be able to escape UVB exposure as well as bask in it (just as important) In a contained environment you make it much more difficult for the animal to do this with a 10.0.
I said nothing about eye problems, and I would love for you to direct me to a thread or better yet, show me a picture of a Jackson's with MBD.
-Brad
I said nothing about eye problems, and I would love for you to direct me to a thread or better yet, show me a picture of a Jackson's with MBD.
-Brad
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
JaxyGirl
Avid Member
Thanks..you're very sweet too!! I wish you the best of luck with your new babies!! And I can honestly say that I enjoyed this conversation!! Chams are such an intricate species that every little element matters in their husbandry and keeping. I think that the challenge of keeping such a beautiful captive species healthy and happy is part of the fun of having them. How lucky are we to have the honor of keeping such an exotic species??? Enjoy them!!!
Natalie
Hilikus311
New Member
And here are some pics. . .Any problems?
let me know if there is anything wrong here
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let me know if there is anything wrong here
Texas Panther Man
New Member
You could trim a little back on the plants and create a few open areas. And add some vines and pathways for basking and moving easily. Other than that the cage setup looks good. Remeber these guys love water.
Hilikus311
New Member
great! I'll get on that first thing in the morning and right now I have a mister on him that is set to run every hour for 30s. Oh, quick question, how big do they get as compared to veilds?
Sang
New Member
were did you get these guys? WC?
have they been treated for any problems when they came in, if not i really reccommend a vet visit for both.. as i do not find WC animals ever to be "hardy" especially montanes.
granted i have more difficulty with them here in such a dry state, while others have extreme/ great success.
but i wouldn't reccomend a jacksons for a starter...
veiled then panther and maybe even 5 other species before any montane species as cool as they are.
have they been treated for any problems when they came in, if not i really reccommend a vet visit for both.. as i do not find WC animals ever to be "hardy" especially montanes.
granted i have more difficulty with them here in such a dry state, while others have extreme/ great success.
but i wouldn't reccomend a jacksons for a starter...
veiled then panther and maybe even 5 other species before any montane species as cool as they are.
Elizadolots
New Member
Isn't he pretty though?!?
I think the advice I read in another thread about "how much foliage is too much?" was really good...it was: if you have to take a minute or two to find them, that's the right amount...it shouldn't be "where's Waldo"...
I think the advice I read in another thread about "how much foliage is too much?" was really good...it was: if you have to take a minute or two to find them, that's the right amount...it shouldn't be "where's Waldo"...
Hilikus311
New Member
well actually they are not wild caught and although I respect your advice on
gaining more experience before obtaining these species, I already have them, and am doing everything in my power and finacial ability to ensure the survival of these two species. I would still like to know how large they get as compared to a veiled.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
The montium will not get big at all, not even half the size of a veiled.
Your Jackson's will get about half the size of a veiled or a little bit smaller.
If they are captive bred, they are pretty tough little animals.
Don't go crazy with water ... they need humidity and opportunities to drink, but the enclosure also needs to completely dry out between mistings. People tend to overdo with montanes .... they're not frogs!
-Brad
Your Jackson's will get about half the size of a veiled or a little bit smaller.
If they are captive bred, they are pretty tough little animals.
Don't go crazy with water ... they need humidity and opportunities to drink, but the enclosure also needs to completely dry out between mistings. People tend to overdo with montanes .... they're not frogs!
-Brad
Hilikus311
New Member
The montium will not get big at all, not even half the size of a veiled.
Your Jackson's will get about half the size of a veiled or a little bit smaller.
If they are captive bred, they are pretty tough little animals.
Don't go crazy with water ... they need humidity and opportunities to drink, but the enclosure also needs to completely dry out between mistings. People tend to overdo with montanes .... they're not frogs!
-Brad
Lol thanks again Brad! I will keep the H2O advice in mind
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