Ch. calyptratus locale and colourmorphs

[Niels Pedersen]

Hi
We offen see on american chameleon sites, people talk about diffrent calyptratus colours, some natural and some "inbreed".
Have people more or less agreed on what to call the diffrent colour variations and how each type should look like?
I would like to know how many natural locales or variations you know off, and how many designer morphs there is.
I have heard off.

High yellow
orange
turquoise
blue
sunburst
Yellow x turquoise
Orange x turquoise
Orange sunburst
translucent

Many of these must be the same, but feel free to comment on it.
I only know of one locale so far, and thats the locale from north of yemen, which should be larger and have a large helmet. As far as I know many of the diffrent colours are not locales (like we see with pardalis), but variations in the same population.
Thanks
Niels Pedersen

 

[Kent67]

Great idea for a thread. I've often talked about how everyone gets so up in arms about keeping pardalis locales *cough cough* pure, but no one seems interested in calyptratus locales. Anyway, from the pics I've seen of that species in the mountains around Sana'a and Ta'izz (sp?), which are more central, were all pretty standard looking veileds. I think all the colormorphs you listed are the result of selective breeding but would like to hear from anyone who's seen more of them in the wild. I would also add that the translucent or transbald morph is another to consider as it's origin was apparently from wild caught animals that expressed the transbald trait.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

As far as captivity goes, there's no locale distinction, there never has been. It's a shame. Some shipments of calyptratus come in no larger than 12 or 14" total length, others are over two feet. Certainly there is a regional difference in the species size and color and morphology. It's a shame that it is not maintained in captivity.

I would love to get my hands on some of those giant veileds. Anyone who knows anyone with some(just one will do) of them, lemme know! My old male died this summer, and my females need a new male.

 

[SoCaliSon]

Eric... I bought a Male Veiled from Juli because of the size of the parents. From pics I have seen I would say that Juli's Leon qualifies as one of these "Giants". My 3 month baby from her is growing like a weed at 40 grams.

 

[JoshCrane1]

sunburst x turquoise here.

 

[Niels Pedersen]

to kent67. you are right about the translucent, should be on the list.

you can post pictures if you have one of the above colour variations but pleace don´t go off topic and stick to the subject.
I would really like to have some facts about the natural locales and colour variations, rather then guessing

 

[Eric Adrignola]

yeah - he looked huge. You cannot go by the size of the babies, though. I kept my largest baby form last year - he was massive - eating 1/4" crickets at birth, 1/2" at just a couple weeks. He's an adult and is much smaller than his father was. I know he's still growing, but his dad was much bigger at this age...

 

[chameleonneeds]

I would love to see those types of veileds here especially thr turquoise.
But there is the other Veiled but not colour morphed its called the C. Calytratus Calcarifer, their primary distinguishing feature is their casque.
They have a smalled cranial fin in the casque.
Its not much different but its a sub species.

 

[Niels Pedersen]

People once thought it was a sub species, but C. Calytratus Calcarifer is a hybrid between Ch. calyptratus and Chamaeleo arabicus.

 

[Justin Carl]

High yellow
orange
turquoise
blue
sunburst
Yellow x turquoise
Orange x turquoise
Orange sunburst

Niels Pedersen

I'm a little short on time, so I'll post a short response.

I think most of the following above is rubbish.
Some sort of marketing ploy to make a breeders animals more desirable then another's.
Until some one actually goes to Yemen to different locales and spends a lot of time photographing and documenting where they find certain animals, then, to me, a veiled is a veiled.
There could be several characteristics besides color that separates the locales.
Colors, size, temperatures, incubation, feeding habits, seasons, etc.
Not to mention how hard it is to get a true Yemen WC Veiled.
Most of them go to Egypt or Israel before being exported to other countries.
It's much easier to make a trip to South Florida and pick a few out of the bushes at night.
No need for CITES paperwork and paying a bunch of people.

This is an orange low end translucent.
I've only seen a few veileds that were as orange as this guy.

 

[Niels Pedersen]

Im pretty sure most of the names are rubbish to, but we cant deny that there are diffrent colour variations, both in the wild and in the hobby. The fact is that, we dont know if they are really colour locales or variations from the same area, but thats why I started this thread, some one might know where thy got there wc calyptratus from.

Here are 4 pictures of wc animals (guess most of you have seen them before) and they all look very diffrent. I know that if you want to compare colours, then the animals has to be adults and show their display colours, as you cant compare the colours from display to a calm. One of the males is calm (the brown one) but I have seen him with display colours, and he still very brown.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Certainly there is a great deal of variation between locales of calyptratus in the wild. One interesting aspect of this is that at least three of those above pictures are of FLORIDA wild Caught animals. They're not indicative of natural Arabian populations and color variations. These animals come from a very small(relative to the natural population)group of founder animals - and yet they still vary a great deal in color.

Veileds all have similar colors: Orange, green, brown, black, yellow, blue, maroon, and white. I've not seen one wiht anything else. Locales of calyptratus vary in the amounts of these colors an din the details of their patterns, but it's pretty much a typical thing.

Pardalis locales vary significantly in their colors - where some have colors others do not have at all. Very interesting stuff. Pardalis do vary in size, but I'v enever seen any of them vary as much as veileds do.

My first veiled was a WC pair - the male was 12" total length, the female was 15" total length. I have seen some approaching 25" in total length - bigger than anything but oousti's and parsonii, and right about as big as melleri - but bigger than most.

That's variety.

 

[Niels Pedersen]

ohh so they are wc from Florida, then they are not as interisting as if they was from yemen. I would like to see some different variations from Yemen.

I still hope some one will comment on the colour list, even though many of them are design colours. It just seem they are all one large mix of colours in usa, as none of them (or few) have true natural colours.
Here in Denmark we see more and more wc calyptratus, which is a good thing as the gene poll was getting smaller and smaller.

The reason why I started this thread was:
A. To se how many different colour variations there was, both natural/Florida natural and designer types.

B. see if any one knew about the natural colour variations.

I know all about F.pardalis locales, but thank any way
Here is a link to my Danish site about F. pardalis locales. Most people have their own opinion about locales from what they have read in the books or seen on the internet. What I have done is looking at wc pardalis, talking with reliable sources, who either live or offen visit Madagascar, and then I have been their my self.

http://www.kamaeleoner.dk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=63

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Please, if you have some, post pics of WC yemen veileds and their variations. We have no access to wild yemeni veileds (something about Yemen/US dipomacy, I'm sure...).

General "wild type" veileds are common, but it seems the majority of breeders go for line breeding. They are breeding for certain colors

 

[Niels Pedersen]

Please, if you have some, post pics of WC yemen veileds and their variations. We have no access to wild yemeni veileds (something about Yemen/US dipomacy, I'm sure...).

General "wild type" veileds are common, but it seems the majority of breeders go for line breeding. They are breeding for certain colors

sure, let me find some, but I had hoped that you guys had some
The first picture is a wc calyptratus from Yemen.

 

[Niels Pedersen]

No comments on the colour list?
A lot of you people use the diffrent designer names, So some of you must have an idea why you call them that and what they should look like to have a specific name?
How many areas in usa do you guys have "wild" Ch. calyptratus?

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

if we did, you would know. these labels are a profit driven creation.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

A certain veiled breeder had a few veileds that displayed more of one type of color than another.

Most veileds have a good balance of green, yellow stripes, blue spots and orange.

These were individuals that had more blue than green, or prominent orange. Some had wide, bright yellow stripes.

So, he marketed them as "Lemon Yellow", "turquoise" and most infamous of all - "sunburst".

This was, in all truth, complete and utter Bu**s**t. I spoke with this guy years ago, and he bred very few animals himself. HEck, you used ot see tons of his ads on Kingsnake selling veileds, and just as many wanting to BUY YOUR veileds. He sold veileds that he bough in massive lots from random (some were not random) breeders. He had no way of telling what the parents looked like, but he sold them as these designer name chameleons.

Now, most good breeders will say if their bloodline is high-yellow, high-blue, high-orange, or a mix. I prefer a good balance, with lots of yellow, orange, green background and blue spots - what my first WC veiled looked like.

If you take ANY animal, and selectivly breed, ou will isolate certain different colors in some lines, other colors in other lines.

The frustrating thing is when people look at a pic of my veileds and ask what color it is - as if some arbitratry marketing term trumps the actual light reflected off of it's body!

Even worse - far worse - is when someone asks if a veiled chameleon can be crossed with a sunburst chameleon.... aggghhhh.