CB Akia digging her nest

[studiocham]

Don't know if she is fertilized for certain, but these pix are for owners of all those CB aunts and uncles out there.

She has been driving me mad this week with pacing and basking and eating and drinking and pacing. She "said" none of the huge plant pots would do this year, even though she laid in a pot last year (infertiles). So, I ran out yesterday and bought her a brand new 45g trashcan, de-plastic-scent-ed it with vinegar, rinsed, filled with Mike's nesting formula (THANKS MIKE!). Then she "said" it wasn't good enough, and spent the rest of yesterday basking up on her perches. Today, I put her back in, rained on her, and dug a fake hole on one side. She sat very still, bright green, for an hour, as if cogitating on the concept of "hole". At 11am, she started her own hole opposite it.

Because mine was clearly a novice attempt.

Notice she is far from bright green, she is white and yellow right now, the "having contractions" color for gravid ladies. The big branch is her exit path, so she can leave at any time.

No matter how long I've been at this, it is still exciting!

 

[studiocham]

50 minutes later

She is already laying her eggs!

Unfortunately, she's giving the camera stink-eye, I hope she's not disturbed. I don't even look, I just sneak the camera over the top edge and click, then sneak away.

The visible eggs look compressed, so I'm guessing this wasn't a fertilized clutch. The fertile ones I've seen in the past are big and full.

 

[Justin Carl]

Hip Hip Hurray!
I'm incredibly happy for you.
Sending you a PM.

 

[PARDAFOREVER]

I think it's normal for the eggs shape, normaly they round in the houre.
it is necessary to put all these eggs in the belly

 

[studiocham]

12:39 44 by forum clock) She has started to bury them with her back legs.

She lays very small numbers because I intentionally keep her on a maintenance diet. Judging by her max weight gain this year, it should be 10-20 eggs total.

Thanks, Justin! It will be nice to have my sweet-tempered chameleon back.

 

[studiocham]

I think it's normal for the eggs shape, normaly they round in the houre.
it is necessary to put all these eggs in the belly

That is good to know, Patrick, thank you!

I have seen compressed eggs pop back to round in incubation, but it may be coincidence that the few I've seen were also infertiles.

You have given me a hope! It would be great if these turned out to be fertile. Her mate was a handsome guy.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Yay! Go Akia! *happy dance*
Congrats Kristina!!


Here Guin (Akia's brother) is busy courting both females - no real sign of receptiveness though...

 

[BocaJan]

My gravid infertile lady is doing the same thing. I hope I don't have to buy a new pot for her to lay in. This is her first bunch of eggs and I am nervous. Did yours scratch at the screen? She drove me nuts all morning playing "screen" noises. She wasn't trying to climb, just pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick until I finally went out shopping. LOL

 

[studiocham]

No, she did not scratch the screen, just climbed it as part of her roaming.

I'm seeing something I've not seen before.

Either she has decided that I/the camera disturbed her nesting process (that one pic where she sees the camera) and she has to start over, or she really did disapprove of the laying options to begin with. I never used the flash of the camera, her lightbulb illuminates it just fine.

These were taken between 1:27pm and 3:30 pm, as sneaky as possible.

She dug up her nest after burial, and dug another hole next to my "fake" hole on the other side.

If I try to save the eggs, it will only drive her off her pattern further, and I need her to get through this more than I want eggs. She's not laying, she is just sitting there looking thirsty.

Could this be a sign of dystocia? I was under the impression that classic dystocia did not show by digging up one's own nest... It usually presents with dropping surface eggs or failing to lay at all... right?

 

[Eric Adrignola]

When I've seen or heard of veileds being egg bound, from egg-binding or from another blockage (oviduct and intestines twisted), they've taken a long time to lay eggs.

They dig, take a really long time to lay only a few eggs, cover them, and leave. Sometimes, if they take a long long time - sometimes more than a day - to lay, they'll simply finish up, as if they're done, and go bck to normal activity. They still have most of the eggs in them, and go downhill fast. Of the two times it's happened to my females (10-12 years ago), they would not dig again. The one just sat there in the hole, the other acted as if she finished laying.

others have reported the same things to me.

I do not recall ever hearding of one digging another nest. My guess is she was spooked.

Kind of strange, as I've messed with females all the time when laying (all but one time, actually... I know, I'm bad... can't help it, I just have to watch), and I've never seen them stop. I even had one which I thought the tunnel had collapsed on her. I yanked her out by the tail. she gave me that same stink-eye, turned around and started digging again.

The eggs will be fine (if not harder to find), I would wait till she's DONE.

Keep us informed!

 

[spatulars]

Great post k! I've never seen anything like this before, very interesting. Is it equally taxing for females to develop infertile eggs as it is for them to develop fertile eggs?

 

[studiocham]

I do not recall ever hearing of one digging another nest. My guess is she was spooked.

Kind of strange, as I've messed with females all the time when laying (all but one time, actually... I know, I'm bad... can't help it, I just have to watch), and I've never seen them stop. I even had one which I thought the tunnel had collapsed on her. I yanked her out by the tail. she gave me that same stink-eye, turned around and started digging again.

Totally strange, this one was raised with the camera from day one! I also took pix of her dam laying eggs and she was fine with it. I've seen pix of WC melleri laying in captivity, it doesn't stop them. Have to let gravids have their quirks, I suppose!

I have tried to keep the house quiet all day, shut the chamroom door, told everyone to not come in the house today and not to call before dark, but... a conference call came in, plus the other line rings. Not to mention the neighbor was out banging metal fenceposts in along our fenceline nearest the chamroom, until noonish. I'm sure she felt all manner of scary vibrations in addition to my tiptoe-ing around... sigh.

She already has a vet appointment for tomorrow morning if she doesn't sort it out tonight.

Here is a pic of the chamroom from earlier today. Big cham means big cage, and big nesting bucket...

 

[SoCaliSon]

I too check on my females periodically while they lay, trying not to freak them out. The first time I had a female lay for me... She took a very long time...and by the end of the day she had almost died from a cave in... If I was not checking on her every couple hours she would have died... And I am still lucky she didn't cause I have no idea how long she was suffocating for. What I do to avoid from spooking them is I use a small mirror from my GF's purse and barely peek it over to view in without having to hang my head over the bin, seems to work well... and doesn't seem to bother the busy lady.

Awesome Thread Kristina! Very Cool Pics!

~Joe

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

my wife had me thinking i was dr strange for watching them lay, good to know its normal for us "strange" cham lovers, congrats, the rest of your day is shot because you'll most likely be consumed with thoughts of making sure there were no problems and what you can do to make her bounce back

 

[studiocham]

Great post k! I've never seen anything like this before, very interesting. Is it equally taxing for females to develop infertile eggs as it is for them to develop fertile eggs?

The female, at the beginning, is committed to the same amount of raw materials for her side of the deal, whether or not a male contributes. The difference in melleri is that some can reabsorb their infertiles and bypass the gestation and nesting hassle. At what point this occurs is hard to pin down, but they may not have to shell them if they reabsorb yolks, so that saves them some chemical effort. I'm told (by a friend's vet) that Ca levels drop during reabsorption. I never received the X-rays from a keeper who had proof of it in a female melleri, taken over several months, I just have their word. Most of what we have for now is behavioral observation and tracking cycles of known reproductive females.

In this case, Akia went the distance, and either was bred or, due to the extended courtship contact, hormonally "thinks" she was bred, and shelled the eggs/yolks. I suspect again that these may be infertile because I looked at the calendar, and she is one week early for a 90-day gestation.

Does 1 week shorter gestation matter in other brief-incubation species?

 

[studiocham]

What I do to avoid from spooking them is I use a small mirror from my GF's purse and barely peek it over to view in without having to hang my head over the bin, seems to work well... and doesn't seem to bother the busy lady.

Hey Joe, look on the door frame of the enclsoure pic.

I wonder if it backfired and she saw me peek at her, or move past it?

 

[bucky]

I don't even look, I just sneak the camera over the top edge and click, then sneak away

.

LOL I could see myself doing that, if i had a female chameleon laying eggs. But i dont think id snag such a good pic as you did!

 

[studiocham]

all good

After lights out, I opened the chamroom door and saw Akia green and roosting high up in her cage. Whew. I put her in the shower and excavated 43 eggs from her nest. A handful were stirred up at the top of the nest, but most of them were safely at the very bottom of the can.

After the shower, I put her back on her perch and she gave me a look. I offered a cricket and she shot without hesitation. Then she ate four more. This is the perky rebound I expect from my females. Speechless with relief.

After shower, greening up, note her rostrum is further worn down. I put Silvadene on it before I left her for the night.

43 eggs:

Details of the eggs, still dented/compressed:

These 15 are the largest, longest, and fullest of the eggs- the first laid, at the bottom of the nest. Only one is so full as to be springy like the eggs I am used to seeing from melleri, and it has that yellowish tinge of an infertile.

Last year, she laid 39 infertiles, so I am quite sure she laid everything she had. Her weight before her shower was back to her neutral for the year's cycle.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Glad to hear she got the job done and is up recovering. That's a relief! Let us know how/if the eggs develop. Our Megana is still white. Her sides are expanding. I introduced her to her birthing bin this morning, just to be on the safe side. It is adjacent to their free range, with a thick vine decending into it. She spent most of the rest of the day perched above it. I don't expect her to be fertile, and am not even sure she's gravid, but her color changed significantly in July so am playing it safe.

Thank you for all the photos and info. Akia looks really good for just laying 43 eggs.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I'm glad Akia is doing well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for those eggs.

Glad to hear she got the job done and is up recovering. That's a relief! Let us know how/if the eggs develop. Our Megana is still white. Her sides are expanding. I introduced her to her birthing bin this morning, just to be on the safe side. It is adjacent to their free range, with a thick vine decending into it. She spent most of the rest of the day perched above it. I don't expect her to be fertile, and am not even sure she's gravid, but her color changed significantly in July so am playing it safe.

It's good to play it safe! Have you been weighing her? I was doing the same with Merlin earlier this year. She also suddenly changed color and stayed pale for 2 months, she also gained 40 grams in that time. In my case it was false alarm: after 4 months I took her to the vet for an ultrasound and that revealed no eggs, unfortunately.

Thank you for all the photos and info. Akia looks really good for just laying 43 eggs.

A healthy melleri like Akia will barely look tired after a clutch that size. Merlin was the same last year.