Can we 'OUT' the crappy pet stores?

ChameleonMom

ChameleonMom

New Member
I haven't been on CF as long as some of the people on here but honestly the horror stories that we read on a daily basis of mistreated chameleons in pet stores are driving me crazy with real anger, helplessness and sympathy for the poor little souls that I have come to love more than some people in my life!

I have been thinking of what can be done to stop this nonsense and wondered if a 'sticky' thread on CF that could list the names and addresses & States and Countries of these offending pet stores would help, even if just a little bit?

Word of mouth can make or break a business and honestly if I 'Googled' a pet store and saw their name come up on a 'crappy pet store' thread on a pet forum, I definitely would NOT purchase anything from them!

Would this be legal? I was further thinking that anyone who added a pet store to the sticky thread could then dispatch a (CF developed) 'form' letter to the pet store advising them of their inclusion onto the 'bad pet store' list. If the store wanted to have their name taken off the list they would have to follow specific criteria showing proper husbandry in the care of chameleons. The person who adds the store to the list would be the one to follow up on the store for improvements!

Perhaps a bit ambitious but dammit, it has to start somewhere and I am tired of feeling sick to my stomach every time I read another sad story of a mistreated chameleon.

Thoughts?
 
Personally id just remove pets from all pet stores. They make no money on the pets, they just stock the pets so you will come back for food and cage supplies. Dogs and cats do just fine and 90% of them are not sold at pet stores. Its a sad thing, but lizards are still in the disposable pet category.
 
I don't know if that can be done, but one thing that can be done is to have every person on this forum write letters or e-mails to the store owners in their town about the care or lack of care at their store and if this store happens to be a large conglomerate then an e-mail to the home office.....my husband did this a few weeks ago and the care and living conditions at this particular store has changed for the better.......a lot of written voices can make a difference.....I really do like the crappy pet store list idea.
 
If you "out" a crappy pet store and they find out who you are then you may face legal repercussions. Defacing a business is similar to slander I believe and you may be sued and/or charged as a result. I've worked for good and bad pet stores and been to both. They will always exist as long as humans want pets and as long as the globe remains capitalist. Humans have a messed up perception of what types of life are sacred and what aren't anyway. Think about how many cats and dogs are fed bird and cow meat everyday. That meat could go to starving humans but it doesn't. Similar to the whole mass meat production industry. Food is food to us, yet every single piece of meat you eat was a life. I don't mean to derail or flame you ChamMom because I too have biased perceptions on life. I'll eat just about anything that has nutrient or caloric value just a point that many people don't realize and a little legal advice lol:D.

Final Thought: Every insect you feed to your pet was a life.
 
NachoTacular519 said:
If you "out" a crappy pet store and they find out who you are then you may face legal repercussions. Defacing a business is similar to slander I believe and you may be sued and/or charged as a result. I've worked for good and bad pet stores and been to both. They will always exist as long as humans want pets and as long as the globe remains capitalist. Humans have a messed up perception of what types of life are sacred and what aren't anyway. Think about how many cats and dogs are fed bird and cow meat everyday. That meat could go to starving humans but it doesn't. Similar to the whole mass meat production industry. Food is food to us, yet every single piece of meat you eat was a life. I don't mean to derail or flame you ChamMom because I too have biased perceptions on life. I'll eat just about anything that has nutrient or caloric value just a point that many people don't realize and a little legal advice lol:D.

Final Thought: Every insect you feed to your pet was a life.
Click to expand...

You cannot be convicted of slander if you are stating the truth. Take a couple of pictures of the deplorable conditions for evidence and you have nothing to worry about. Slander is spreading false information to someone's or some business' detriment.
 
Ask and you shall receive

There are many reasons we don’t allow breeder, individual and store review threads on Chameleon Forums. Primarily it’s a moderation nightmare. Unfortunately most of those kinds of threads tend to be negatively charged and can quickly escalate into bickering, finger pointing and name calling. Good reputations can easily be damaged by an inadvertent comment derived from rumours and innuendo even from parties not directly involved. Chameleon Forums is here to educate and offer support within the community, not to be a part of the drama that is often associated with it.

There is a website equipped to deal with these types of problems and they have certain standards in place to prove or disprove any accusations between the parties involved. It is called the Board of Inquiry located at Fauna Classifieds. I strongly recommend that you check the respective forums before you purchase to verify whether the breeder has a positive reputation or not.
American BOI: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13
Canadian BOI: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=614
International BOI: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=884

If anyone has any suggestions on how we could implement something like this here please do not hesitate to send me a private message.

Thanks,
Trace
 
Not sure if it will do any good, but I am currently writing a letter to send to the major chain stores concerning the keeping of chameleons. (Its about half way done :eek:) I don't think it will help, but I am going to try it anyway. I do believe that many who run these stores must care for animals when getting into the business, and may just need someone to politely remind them of the responsibility that they have as owners. They should be passing the responsibility on to the customers and remember that people do not always know how to properly care for these pets and need proper guidance. Unfortunately with many non-corporate stores the only course of action may be a call to animal services to take a visit. Here's a link to my blog about the letter, and I promise I will post it as soon as it is done. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/decadancin/755-chain-store-letters.html

Having said all that, the best thing to do when stores do not do the right thing is to spread the word about the stores that do and give them the $$$. :D
 
The only thing to do is to not buy from those stores and actually stop buying any reptiles in general. If there is a market for them they will be imported/exported without care to populations or welfare of the animal. Its sad but just the way it works.
 
The best thing people can do is stop "rescuing" animals from pet stores. You are the only one who considers it a rescue. To the store, it's a sale, and your sale tells their buyers that they should buy more chameleons since they are selling. People who say they are "rescuing" from a pet store are actually only compounding the problem. If you wish to rescue an animal, go to the Humane Society:)
 
shaunaroxanne said:
The best thing people can do is stop "rescuing" animals from pet stores. You are the only one who considers it a rescue. To the store, it's a sale, and your sale tells their buyers that they should buy more chameleons since they are selling. People who say they are "rescuing" from a pet store are actually only compounding the problem. If you wish to rescue an animal, go to the Humane Society:)
Click to expand...

Good post, something to consider for sure. Though I've never acted on it, I always feel the urge. This will give me some pause.
 
Cainschams said:
The only thing to do is to not buy from those stores and actually stop buying any reptiles in general. If there is a market for them they will be imported/exported without care to populations or welfare of the animal. Its sad but just the way it works.
Click to expand...

My point exactly. DeadHd I was thinking more along the lines of people incriminating themselves in that manner if threads devolved into arguments or anger etc(which tends to happen easily on any forum lol)
 
Just as a friendly reminder to everyone-- there are some pet stores that are great!

For instance-- Birds and Beasts in Crystal Lake, Illinois has 2 employees that work on the side as part time breeders of reptiles. They care for all of the reptiles as they should be, and dont just sell a reptile to sell it. They actually focus you towards reptiles that you would be capable of caring for~

http://www.birdsandbeastspetshop.com/index2.html

so just keep in mind, there are still some mom and pop shops that are worth stopping into!
 
drcrossfire said:
Just as a friendly reminder to everyone-- there are some pet stores that are great!

For instance-- Birds and Beasts in Crystal Lake, Illinois has 2 employees that work on the side as part time breeders of reptiles. They care for all of the reptiles as they should be, and dont just sell a reptile to sell it. They actually focus you towards reptiles that you would be capable of caring for~

http://www.birdsandbeastspetshop.com/index2.html

so just keep in mind, there are still some mom and pop shops that are worth stopping into!
Click to expand...

So true! And, many stores can become "works in progress" if they are willing or even interested in learning something new. Sometimes it is simple ignorance, even though I firmly believe that no store should get animals from their suppliers if they don't know how to care for them!!

I've often had good luck with a small local shop that happened to have a cham needing better care or a setup. It helps if you sort of weasel your way into their good graces by being friendly, polite, finding out just what interests you have in common, offering tips, showing them proof that what you say is based on good experience, and then rewarding them by buying your supplies there. Everyone wins that way.
 
When I rescued Yuki from the pet store, I made sure that the employees/manager were willing to learn about chameleon care. I took her in to provide a solitary life, away from the larger, bullying chameleons (They didn't have more room to put her alone, which is what she needed). Instead of the 29€ she was being sold for, I got her for 10€. I now go back there every 2-5 days to see how things are shaping up. They bought a sprayer that holds a lot of water and mist 3 times a day now (They even mist the other reptiles that need misting!) and provide proper sized food. (ALthough there is one guy that I had to talk specifically to, who thought large sized grasshoppers are ideal for young veiled). The last 2 young chameleons they had have since been split up (they put a temporary divider between one of the larger enclosures) and put in more foliage. They took out the water bowls and raised the lamps. Yuki has a nasty burn on her head from rubbing her head on the light.

All in all, rescuing from pet stores CAN be alright, if you're willing to make the commitment to help shape the place you got them from! If the people are willing to change, then there is no problem :) Just today I went back, and I complemented them on the job well done. The chameleons are looking better every time I go back. It really makes me proud. Even Yuki is doing better, and I have a new family member, without dooming future chameleons at the store! :p

I just wish everyone would see things the same way these people do. Willing to listen and change things for the greater good. Maybe one day the future will be brighter :)
 
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