Can someone tell me if this is normal feeding behavior?

[gngorman]

Ok you need to get that girl a laying tub. Put 8 to 12 inches of playsand/fertilizer free organic potting soil in a large tub of any kind ie (rubbermaid). It seems to me like this is a females behavior for egg laying. If the pet store was right on the age then this cham is a little young, but they were more than likley wrong seeing as how they are a bunch of chameleon idiots. But seriously get the girl a laying place just in case. You will need one anyways even if it is not her time right now because it will be pretty soon..... If you dont she can end up egg-bound which will kill her and i know you dont want that

 

[Elizadolots]

edited because someone posted better information right when I did.

 

[AReptile]

If she is older than what the petstores told me then she is ridiculously small to be eggbound, but you may be right and I won't take chances. My only hope is that she holds out until I can go out and get some sand or soil since i'm pretty sure there's none here and get her to a vet too.

 

[Elizadolots]

From what I understand, it's not uncommon for pet store chameleons to be poorly fed so smaller than average.

Can you take a picture? I bet that would help.

 

[AReptile]

This is not really a good picture, was taken last month not long after we got her ( then thought to be a him) but as you can see from the picture she really doesn't look to be an egg laying size. I'll take one of her tomorrow since she's sleeping right now and I don't want to bother her.

Edit: Forgot to mention she ate 4 crickets today dusted with calcium w/o D3, probably would've eaten more if I gave them to her.

 

[Elizadolots]

I don't think "size" is what determines reproductive capability. A few pictures from the side to show the body shape would be good.

It might be something completely different, but if it is a she and she is bearing eggs, it's vital that she have a good place to lay them before she gets any further along. You'd like to think she's just lay the eggs anywhere because, hey, that's what chickens do....but she won't. If she's the least bit stressed out by the situation she's in, she'll opt to just die rather than lay. It's ugly and will make you feel really bad. So, just to avoid that, take precautions and prepare for her to lay if necessary. It won't cost you much and it could save her life.

 

[AReptile]

This is a picture from a few minutes ago, I had the flash on and she turned brown when i took the picture. Just ate not too long ago and she hasn't gone on the plant yet. She was like darkish green right before i took the picture. What are the gravid colors for female veileds?

 

[Elizadolots]

Are you seeing her drink? She looks like she might be a bit dehydrated.

Here's a link to a thread with a picture of a gravid and non-gravid female:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/lol-chameleons-32667/

 

[AReptile]

Well since i've had her seeing her drink has been sketchy overall. For a while no i didn't and her urate was always yellow with a white tip. Then there was a period where she would drink in front of me while i misted her and she produced a solid white urate. And now she's back to not drinking apparently, because the last urate she produced was yellow with the white tip again. She has no problems eating in front of me right now that's for sure. She went to sleep on the plant tonight unlike the last two days where she slept on the floor...

Edit: Forgot to mention I did put a laying bin in there for her today, and since i've had her (month and a half) she hasn't shed. Don't know if that could be related to this at all.

 

[jannb]

Please post more pictures of her and get some good ones of her legs, front and back please. Also please answer these questions so that we can help you to help your chameleon.
How to ask for help

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[AReptile]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Age allegedly 4 months old not positive gender originally thought to be male, think it's a female though now

Handling - Once a week when i change the substrate i take the plant out that she is usually on but i never actually pick her up because she wants to rip my hand off.

Feeding - Crickets small to medium sized. Gutloading with romaine lettuce carrots and apples right now. most I've let her eat in one day is 4 crickets

Supplements - I just got the supplements i ordered yesterday: Rep Cal calcium w/o d3, w/ d3, multivitamin
Week1:
mon-fri:calcium without d3
sat:none
sun: calcium with d3

week2:
mon-fri: calcium without d3
sat: none
sun: multivitamin

week3:
repeat week 1

week4:
repeat week 2 without multivitamin.

Watering - Spray with a bottle, using a cup with a small hole in the bottom as a dripper. Used a fogger for about 2 weeks and discontinued use
Fecal Description - Since ownership has produced a mostly yellow urate with a white tip, second to last one was completely white. Chameleon was never seen drinking until about last week. Hasn't been tested for parasites.
History - This is my second chameleon. Exchanged the one i had gotten originally from the petstore for this one because it appeared to not be healthy. Recently changed her feeding behavior from waiting for the crickets to climb on the plant to hunting them on the floor.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 10 Gallon tank (temporary until it gets larger) w/ mesh top. Measurements are 20x10.5x12

Lighting - 15 watt house bulb and UVB bulb is a linear Reptiglo 5.0. Try to get the lights on at 7 AM but sometimes it goes on earlier/ later because i have school and lights off at 7 PM.

Temperature - Cage floor reads about 70 when the lights are on, basking spot anywhere from 80-83. Overnight temp is usually in the mid 60s. Using a digital thermometer to measure the basking spot, regular one for the cage floor.

Humidity - Sometimes it's 20% when i wake up, usually at least 30%. When I mist it goes anywhere from 40 to 70. Using a hygrometer to measure humidity.

Plants - I have a fake plant atm (temporary)

Placement - 4 feet off the floor due to the stand that it's on. In my room, only one who is in there frequently is me.

Location - NY

Current Problem - Concerned with the change in my chameleon's behavior lately. Has been spending more time on the floor then I've ever seen. Still eats like a champ, movement is questionable. Sketchy drinking. She can climb and hasn't fallen off her plant ever but her movement looks very awkward sometimes. Her movement and time spent on the floor are recent.

 

[gngorman]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Age allegedly 4 months old not positive gender originally thought to be male, think it's a female though now

Handling - Once a week when i change the substrate i take the plant out that she is usually on but i never actually pick her up because she wants to rip my hand off.

Feeding - Crickets small to medium sized. Gutloading with romaine lettuce carrots and apples right now. most I've let her eat in one day is 4 crickets

Supplements - I just got the supplements i ordered yesterday: Rep Cal calcium w/o d3, w/ d3, multivitamin
Week1:
mon-fri:calcium without d3
sat:none
sun: calcium with d3

week2:
mon-fri: calcium without d3
sat: none
sun: multivitamin

week3:
repeat week 1

week4:
repeat week 2 without multivitamin.

Watering - Spray with a bottle, using a cup with a small hole in the bottom as a dripper. Used a fogger for about 2 weeks and discontinued use
Fecal Description - Since ownership has produced a mostly yellow urate with a white tip, second to last one was completely white. Chameleon was never seen drinking until about last week. Hasn't been tested for parasites.
History - This is my second chameleon. Exchanged the one i had gotten originally from the petstore for this one because it appeared to not be healthy. Recently changed her feeding behavior from waiting for the crickets to climb on the plant to hunting them on the floor.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 10 Gallon tank (temporary until it gets larger) w/ mesh top. Measurements are 20x10.5x12

Lighting - 15 watt house bulb and UVB bulb is a linear Reptiglo 5.0. Try to get the lights on at 7 AM but sometimes it goes on earlier/ later because i have school and lights off at 7 PM.

Temperature - Cage floor reads about 70 when the lights are on, basking spot anywhere from 80-83. Overnight temp is usually in the mid 60s. Using a digital thermometer to measure the basking spot, regular one for the cage floor.

Humidity - Sometimes it's 20% when i wake up, usually at least 30%. When I mist it goes anywhere from 40 to 70. Using a hygrometer to measure humidity.

Plants - I have a fake plant atm (temporary)

Placement - 4 feet off the floor due to the stand that it's on. In my room, only one who is in there frequently is me.

Location - NY

Current Problem - Concerned with the change in my chameleon's behavior lately. Has been spending more time on the floor then I've ever seen. Still eats like a champ, movement is questionable. Sketchy drinking. She can climb and hasn't fallen off her plant ever but her movement looks very awkward sometimes. Her movement and time spent on the floor are recent.

Ok you have alot of problems... First and foremost you need to get the chameleon out of the glass aquarium no wonder she is acting crazy she is stressed as hell. You need to get a screen enclosure at least 3 foot tall and 18 inches wide and deep. Get some live plants... there needs to be no substrate except for carpet. She is staying low because she has no choice. Chameleons are aboreal reptiles they need/want to be really high always. I would say put your new cage you will hopefully be getting ASAP where the top is at least 5-6 ft from the floor. I can see that you did not do much research before you bought your chameleon. Your husbandry is completely wrong. Do not change the cage when she gets bigger change it now or she will not be getting any bigger.. Your chameleon will die. It is highly stressed. Please take this information critically. PLEASE fix your problems. Here is a really good link READ IT!!!!! http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

 

[Elizadolots]

In the picture, it looks like your substrate is paper towels. There's nothing wrong with that.

In New York, it might well be too cold and too dry to use a full mesh cage, but more ventilation would probably be good....there are threads here on how to give adequate ventilation while maintaining humidity. Mostly glass enclosures definitely have their place in the northern realms.

One thing I don't know, and maybe someone who does "glass" in a northern realm might have an answer: would rotating the cage so that the mesh was the "front" be an improvement? It wouldn't take much to make it a workable "door". That would give added height for the animal and it just seems to me that a full vertical side of mesh is going to provide better ventilation than a full horizontal side. (I'd feel better with ventilation in both directions, but you have to work with what you have at times).

Do you have a new cage on order already? If so, could I ask what it is?

As you are concerned about her size and there's a chance she might be bearing eggs, I don't think I'd restrict her cricket intake at the moment. You might even want to supplement with a couple of wax worms once a week for awhile. They are basically blobs of fat but will help build her up and help with her hydration.

By the way, it seems like you're making progress improving her hydration over what she had when you got her.

You might want to construct some fake climbing vines. Based on recommendations here, I use (and am very happy with) Rapiclip soft twist tie.

Dixieline carries it here (SoCal). Call places that have garden shops and ask around. It's not expensive and with it, you could build a system of vines that would make any aboreal creature happy.

There are some great vine ideas in this thread:https://www.chameleonforums.com/wood-vines-fake-real-7616/

and more here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/vines-36900/

In their dream worlds, I'm sure chameleons loom over everything....but sometimes that's not feasible. Mine do seem to appreciate being able to sleep and bask in a place above my head. That's not to say the whole cage needs to be that tall, as long as the upper 4 or 5 inches are and she can get there easily and stay there safely, she'll probably be happy.

I think I'd also put some "place to hide" in the top region...I cut up a fake ivy garland and hung it from the top so mine could both be higher than I am and be hidden...one, at least, seems to think this is "the place to be".

Live plants will help keep the humidity up. It might be hard to get a good plant now where you are. I don't know.

It's good you have the laying bin in. Hopefully you've read all the info and know that the soil/sand should be kept moist. It needs to be something one can dig a hole into and have it hold up. You can probably test that with a finger.

You might not need it, but it won't hurt and it could be critical.

 

[AReptile]

To start in response to your post gngorman I have seen that link numerous times I am well aware of it. Where do you get off thinking that I did no research? First of all barely anything you put in your post matches anything that other people have told me to do since I've joined these forums regarding my chameleon.

I've seen on more than one occasion someone who has been on these forums far longer than both of us say that a 10 gallon tank is fine for a baby cham until it begins to outgrow the enclosure. This is a TEMPORARY setup, and perhaps if you didn't have difficulty reading you would have spotted that when I filled the form out. So basically you want me to put a 4 inch long chameleon in an enclosure that big? How the hell am I supposed to monitor it when it can easily get lost and I have no idea what it's doing.

This is definitely not going to be where the chameleon will be in 4 months I can assure you. I did have some major problems with my lighting and substrate and I've now fixed them for this chameleon. The first chameleon I originally had wasn't well and people jumped on me then because I filled the form out and some things needed to be changed immediately. The TANK was not listed as one of them by any of the people who posted in that original thread and a bunch of regular forum posters and experienced cham owners were there helping me out. I normally wouldn't disagree if someone is telling me to change something with the chameleon because I'm new to chameleons and ofc when someone has more experience and wisdom on something it would be stupid to not listen to them. But when I got 55 people telling me something is fine and then i got one person who comes out of the blue and sounds like an idiot to top it off that it isn't fine, I think I'll listen to the majority. Since other members urged me to make changes I did and I have been on these forums looking closely at topics that would benefit me and my cham. The chameleon was purchased from a pet store and had about 4 other baby chameleons in there with her. She was the biggest one, and she was in a tank as well, one no larger than her current enclosure. If she was stressed out by the fact she was in a tank she would have never made it here because she would have died in that pet store, when she had limited space and multiple chameleons to stress her out. Also once again you tell me to change the something and you give me a wrong answer. Multiple times have I seen the substrate question pop up and many have said either use no substrate or use paper towels, which is what I'm using now. If you were trying to help I wouldn't have known....

Edit: See already you were proven wrong by someone else. Maybe if you were right Elizadolots would have jumped down my throat with you. Btw Eliza i don't have a cage on order right this moment, I was probably going to order a screen one from lllreptile.com in a month or so.

 

[Jakedn]

Ok you have alot of problems... First and foremost you need to get the chameleon out of the glass aquarium no wonder she is acting crazy she is stressed as hell. You need to get a screen enclosure at least 3 foot tall and 18 inches wide and deep. Get some live plants... there needs to be no substrate except for carpet. She is staying low because she has no choice. Chameleons are aboreal reptiles they need/want to be really high always. I would say put your new cage you will hopefully be getting ASAP where the top is at least 5-6 ft from the floor. I can see that you did not do much research before you bought your chameleon. Your husbandry is completely wrong. Do not change the cage when she gets bigger change it now or she will not be getting any bigger.. Your chameleon will die. It is highly stressed. Please take this information critically. PLEASE fix your problems. Here is a really good link READ IT!!!!! http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

The glass aquarium is not that bad, as judging by the picture posted, she appears to have MBD and the fact that she is in a glass aquarium without much height can protect her from further bone damage if she happens to fall. The substrate that is being used is just some paper towels from what I saw in the picture and is completely fine to use. I also do not think you have the information necessary to say that the chameleon is stressed to the point of death. Next time, don't post unless you have the correct information to share, and please do it with a better attitude.

 

[Elizadolots]

Just noting that I don't count as proof....but I did think you have been given information that was not well supported and poorly presented so I tried to give you information I had support for (from here) and present it politely.

Jakedn, you say she seems to have MBD. What is it you base that on? Is it the "curve" of the joints (as opposed to a real bend)? Is it your opinion that the MBD is responsible for the chameleon's behavior change?

AReptile, this really suggests you need to take your chameleon to the vet.

 

[Jakedn]

To start in response to your post gngorman I have seen that link numerous times I am well aware of it. Where do you get off thinking that I did no research? First of all barely anything you put in your post matches anything that other people have told me to do since I've joined these forums regarding my chameleon.

I've seen on more than one occasion someone who has been on these forums far longer than both of us say that a 10 gallon tank is fine for a baby cham until it begins to outgrow the enclosure. This is a TEMPORARY setup, and perhaps if you didn't have difficulty reading you would have spotted that when I filled the form out. So basically you want me to put a 4 inch long chameleon in an enclosure that big? How the hell am I supposed to monitor it when it can easily get lost and I have no idea what it's doing.

This is definitely not going to be where the chameleon will be in 4 months I can assure you. I did have some major problems with my lighting and substrate and I've now fixed them for this chameleon. The first chameleon I originally had wasn't well and people jumped on me then because I filled the form out and some things needed to be changed immediately. The TANK was not listed as one of them by any of the people who posted in that original thread and a bunch of regular forum posters and experienced cham owners were there helping me out. I normally wouldn't disagree if someone is telling me to change something with the chameleon because I'm new to chameleons and ofc when someone has more experience and wisdom on something it would be stupid to not listen to them. But when I got 55 people telling me something is fine and then i got one person who comes out of the blue and sounds like an idiot to top it off that it isn't fine, I think I'll listen to the majority. Since other members urged me to make changes I did and I have been on these forums looking closely at topics that would benefit me and my cham. The chameleon was purchased from a pet store and had about 4 other baby chameleons in there with her. She was the biggest one, and she was in a tank as well, one no larger than her current enclosure. If she was stressed out by the fact she was in a tank she would have never made it here because she would have died in that pet store, when she had limited space and multiple chameleons to stress her out. Also once again you tell me to change the something and you give me a wrong answer. Multiple times have I seen the substrate question pop up and many have said either use no substrate or use paper towels, which is what I'm using now. If you were trying to help I wouldn't have known....

Edit: See already you were proven wrong by someone else. Maybe if you were right Elizadolots would have jumped down my throat with you. Btw Eliza i don't have a cage on order right this moment, I was probably going to order a screen one from lllreptile.com in a month or so.

I honestly do not see anything really that you are doing wrong based off of the form you filled out, good work.

The problems you are encountering with the chameleon was most likely caused from the pet store. In the picture you provided earlier your chameleon appears to have MBD, which is pretty common in chameleons that are bought from a pet store as they are usually not provided with correct supplementation and sometimes do not even have a UVB light and without that their bones do not grow properly and are prone to fractures. The glass aquarium is a good set up for now, it will prevent the chameleon from falling too far and fracturing her bones if she does in fact have MBD.

I would get her to a vet as soon as you can to diagnose and treat any problems she may have, but for the time being keep doing what you are doing and monitor her closely. If you would like to minimize stress (and you haven't already) place the tank somewhere up high. You could also add some more foliage whether it be a fake plant or a real plant. With the very limited height in the tank I would go with fake plants so that there is no wasted space of a pot for the plant. A real plant does not seem necessary to me in your case as veiled chameleons do not need much humidity and unless you notice her eating the fake plants you are fine with sticking with those until you get her a screen cage set up (I would wait for her MBD to get better, her over all health to get better, and her size to increase a bit before setting that up).

 

[Jakedn]

Just noting that I don't count as proof....but I did think you have been given information that was not well supported and poorly presented so I tried to give you information I had support for (from here) and present it politely.

Jakedn, you say she seems to have MBD. What is it you base that on? Is it the "curve" of the joints (as opposed to a real bend)? Is it your opinion that the MBD is responsible for the chameleon's behavior change?

AReptile, this really suggests you need to take your chameleon to the vet.

I am basing it off of the curve in the joints that look abnormal, though I cannot say for sure with the picture provided. I would need to see a better picture of the legs to give a definitive answer. I am also basing this off of the behavior noted as she may be found on the tank floor from falling or trouble climbing.

 

[Elizadolots]

What would you think to laying some fake vine on the ground (not a lot, just enough to get from one side to the other and one end to the other) so the animal can walk more normally without being far off the ground? Or, would the animal prefer to have the vines elevated a few inches? Or, does an animal in this sort of distress prefer to walk on the ground.

 

[Jakedn]

What would you think to laying some fake vine on the ground (not a lot, just enough to get from one side to the other and one end to the other) so the animal can walk more normally without being far off the ground? Or, would the animal prefer to have the vines elevated a few inches? Or, does an animal in this sort of distress prefer to walk on the ground.

These are questions that I cannot answer definitively, I do not have any experience with MBD I only know what I have read. Extra foliage will minimize stress so long as it is not overdone to the point it makes walking difficult. I also do not see a problem in providing a few vines on the floor, in fact it could prove to be beneficial, but remember, it should not be overdone as that too can be a source of stress. The chameleon should be able to move around without having to push through too many leaves.