can odd sleep position lead to sore muscles ?

little leaf

Avid Member
there is SOMETHING ??? just not right with Olive, she has been to the vets so many times, and NOTHING can be pin pointed - she eats, drinks , poops like a pro - but, she has developed insomnia , she roams her cage 1/2 the night - last night she slept in a very odd position, she had her fr/ leg on the screen door, her tail wrapped on the vine, and her body/back legs hanging in mid air - just now at lights on, she seems very slow, like her limbs are made of rock - can she just be sore from her odd sleeping position?
last time at the vet she was diagnosed w/ low cal/ - I think I have gotten that fixed, her set up is spot on ( as a matter of fact he said she was spoiled :p ) but she just seems " off " - and the sleepless nights - she even wakes me up @ 3 AM with her toe nails scratching the screen - I am ready to give her a roach gut loaded with warm milk - lol I also think she is gravid AGAIN - she looks to be getting " the glow " :(
thanks guys
 

little leaf

Avid Member
no, not anymore-- I did try that - but it seemed to make no difference, and getting the cover across 7 feet of cages was a pain - lol all my cages are side by side - all have dividers so no one can be a peeping Tom on the next cage over :p she started the insomnia it seems when it went from winter to spring - she does not sleep ever during the day, but like tonight I bet she will go to her sleeping spot early - but she wont " sleep" until the lights go off, but about 2 hrs after lights off- she will be up again - and I know there are no lose feeders getting her - that was my first thought - maybe something was getting her- but I only hand feed roaches, worms, ect- nothing is able to really run lose except for her moths and flies - and she eats those in like 10 sec, after I let them lose - even I am tired this AM cuz her " sleep walking" waking me up - :(
 

little leaf

Avid Member
68 - 71 at night - that is a good thought !!! its summer here- so pm temps are a bit warmer now- now for the 100,000 question - how do I cool off just her cage? can I lay an ice pack on the top and cover her cage again ? we do run A/C when its really hot ( like now - ) but now that I think of it ( and you said it :p ) Olive HATES to get hot- how do I cool her cage even more? I will be SOOO happy if she would sleep at night !! I can not leave her outside at night , I just dont trust it - I do keep the babies out at night, but they are just the other side of the window, and in such a big, thick cage I feel they are safe - Olive is to big, to slow, and to fat :eek: to move at any speed if something were to start at the cage to run before I could get there at night - at night I do leave the window open by the cages if the a/c is not on-
 

Saldarya

Established Member
If you believe that temp is the issue you can use a portable (or window) room sized AC. The other chams can handle it just fine.

I for one bring the Cham room down to 60 at night. THis is for the montane species benefit, but the panthers don't mind.
 

Chase

Avid Member
Is her cage in a room where there is foot traffic or other lights on? I'm also assuming this is your Jackson? You also said she may be gravid? Has she been bred before?

-Chase
 

little leaf

Avid Member
Is her cage in a room where there is foot traffic or other lights on? I'm also assuming this is your Jackson? You also said she may be gravid? Has she been bred before?

-Chase

I have never personally bred her- but she had 6 babies in March - I was thinking of taking her for an X-ray just to see, but she gets so worked up about everything - very high drama Queen :p last time she went to the vet we had to stop the exam , and let her relax again - her heart rate went so high the vet let her relax before we finished - and yes, its my Jax Olive ( who else would have such weird issues- LOL :p, she is just not normal :p ) they are in the family room, but its big, and no one really goes in "their corner" - and we get up at 5:30 AM, so the room is dark when we go to bed at like 9 pm ( lights out are at 8 pm for them ) she is the only one who is like this - maybe I will try to cover the cages again, maybe that 1 hr of us being up is bugging her ? I cant really move all the cages to another part of the house , and this has been her spot ever since I got her -
 

pigglett79

Avid Member
we have a portable AC for the cham room.

I would also be sure her calcium is up as it should be. I know you were only giving it on 1 feeder. I do understand that everyone is concerned about over supplementing the Jacksons, but plain Calcim is water soluble and VERY hard to over do. It is the other, non-water soluble vitamins that need you need to be careful with.

In my opinion, it is more important to correct the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the feeders, than to deprive them of calcium. If you are feeding roaches, crickets or other insects with a ratio that needs to be corrected and not dusting with plain calcium, you could still have a low calcium problem. The high phosphorus will interfere with calcium absopriton.

Of course gutloading really well with items high in calcium can work just as well as dusting if done properly. I gutload really well, but still dust all roaches given to my jackson with plain calcium. I also tend to feed things that dont need to be dusted such as silk worms, horn worms, isopods etc if I want him to have a day wihtout calcium.
 

little leaf

Avid Member
we have a portable AC for the cham room.

I would also be sure her calcium is up as it should be. I know you were only giving it on 1 feeder. I do understand that everyone is concerned about over supplementing the Jacksons, but plain Calcim is water soluble and VERY hard to over do. It is the other, non-water soluble vitamins that need you need to be careful with.

In my opinion, it is more important to correct the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the feeders, than to deprive them of calcium. If you are feeding roaches, crickets or other insects with a ratio that needs to be corrected and not dusting with plain calcium, you could still have a low calcium problem. The high phosphorus will interfere with calcium absopriton.

Of course gutloading really well with items high in calcium can work just as well as dusting if done properly. I gutload really well, but still dust all roaches given to my jackson with plain calcium. I also tend to feed things that dont need to be dusted such as silk worms, horn worms, isopods etc if I want him to have a day wihtout calcium.

yes, I did bump up the cal/ to 2 X a week on all her feeders I also gut load very well, - and this time I did NOT kill all my silks :D so she gets those too- I dont feed crix/ really anymore, she seems to have leveled out on the cal/ issue - it took almost 2 mos ! to see the change - even tho the vet has said she is pretty much healthy now, she just has these odd issues - I just feel like I am never happy w/ her state of health - she was in such bad condition when I got her, and I have no idea how old she is - and her size - she is just HUGE for a female - I sometimes wonder if she seriously has like a hormone/ growth thing- the vet said she is very big for a female - like that "giants syndrome" people get - but she was fat too- so I was told- LOL I just want her to be healthy and happy ( but HA - the nick name "crabby vine lump" tells you her personalty - lol )
I even put off my trip to Marco Island this yr because I just don't feel safe leaving them to someone else w/ issues going on :(
 

AngieL

Avid Member
68 - 71 at night - that is a good thought !!! its summer here- so pm temps are a bit warmer now- now for the 100,000 question - how do I cool off just her cage? can I lay an ice pack on the top and cover her cage again ? we do run A/C when its really hot ( like now - ) but now that I think of it ( and you said it :p ) Olive HATES to get hot- how do I cool her cage even more? I will be SOOO happy if she would sleep at night !! I can not leave her outside at night , I just dont trust it - I do keep the babies out at night, but they are just the other side of the window, and in such a big, thick cage I feel they are safe - Olive is to big, to slow, and to fat :eek: to move at any speed if something were to start at the cage to run before I could get there at night - at night I do leave the window open by the cages if the a/c is not on-

I do not keep any montane species but from what I have read about their temp requirements I would say that that isn't enough of nigh time drop (they like it cooler as you know)

What other chameleons live on her row? Are thay montane also? My suggestion would be to move her to a cooler room or area. If your othher chams are fine at those temps then it would be better to just move her rather than changing the temps for everyone.

I would think Olive would be just as safe as any babies living outdoors? Not that I live in a climate where outdoor housing is possible (island in the middle of the north sea!) But if she's not sleepingit will no doubt be contibuting to her slowness and lethargy that you are describing :)
 

little leaf

Avid Member
I do not keep any montane species but from what I have read about their temp requirements I would say that that isn't enough of nigh time drop (they like it cooler as you know)

What other chameleons live on her row? Are thay montane also? My suggestion would be to move her to a cooler room or area. If your othher chams are fine at those temps then it would be better to just move her rather than changing the temps for everyone.

I would think Olive would be just as safe as any babies living outdoors? Not that I live in a climate where outdoor housing is possible (island in the middle of the north sea!) But if she's not sleepingit will no doubt be contibuting to her slowness and lethargy that you are describing :)

they are all Jax except for one CLING ON panther- he is worse than velcro ! :p
 
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